mofoco hydraulic lifters

[MTT3107]

So, I am seriously thinking about getting hydraulic lifters for my type 1 engine.

From what I can find out, the only "drop-in" lifters for type 1 engines are the ones from Mofoco.

Would like to hear some first hand experiences.

Engine is a 1835cc, built last year, with all new parts from CB Performance:

New case
Tims super stock heads
Stock ratio rocker arms.
CB performance 2239 camshaft
30mm oil pump.

I also have e-mailed Roy at mofoco, asking if I could just get the lifters, and keep my pushrods and camshaft, no answer yet.

[Alstrup]

Why on Earth would you do that?
And no, you cant just replace the lifters with hydraulic. Cams for hydraulic lifters are different.
Next, slightly dependant on which year that 2239 is, its a very good all round cam. Better than most else on the market in the same range. Slightly noisy, yes, but if you use aluminium pr´s, good adjusters (NOT the crappy courier style) and shim your rocker arms tight the valve train is not noisy.
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[MTT3107]

Why would I want to do that ?
For a quieter valve train, and less adjustments, of course.

What do you mean by ”crappy courier style adjusters”?

[BFB]

“Why would I want to do that ?“
Because no one likes to do maintenance these days and solid lifters freak people out. I mean how many of the V8 guy even run solid lifters? Not many ive known
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[MTT3107]

I don't mind doing maintenance on my bug, do it all the time.
But adjusting valve lash is one of my least liked activities..

I got this bug 3 years ago, and renewed pretty much everything on it, brakes, steering ball joints, built a new engine for it, had it painted, put a new interior in it, etc., etc., etc.

You know how it goes...

So, it's definitely not about not wanting to do maintenance, or any other work on it.

[jeffrey8164]

I’d be interested in any experience shared as well.
I was actually thinking about them the other day so it’s weird that this topic has magically appeared and without Alphabet or Amazon listening.
In reality though, I only have around 7 months of the year I can drive it so I only go through the mechanicals once a year when I either pull the engine out for tweeks and changes or put the car on the lift for a rest.

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[Glenn]

[Max Welton]

[volksworld]

so occaisionally adjusting the valves is too much work but splitting the case on a fresh running engine isn't?....as far as i'm concerned a hydraulic lifter is just one more thing to go wrong and an extra question mark when you're trying to troubleshoot a drivability issue...Type IV hydraulics would bleed down when parked for extended periods of time and would take forever to pump back up...my guess being they dont like to be laid on their side, unlike american stuff that sits upright in the engine

[Glenn]

[Alstrup]

OK.
In all fairness. Hydraulic lifters have their audience. Mainly for the reduced maintenance and noise reduction.
As I wrote earlier, hydraulic lifters need to go on a cam made for that because the ramps on a hydraulic cam are different. That said, A FEW cams for mechanical lifters actually work well with hydraulic lifters too. but they are are far between. ALSO! When using hydraulic camshafts it is paramount that you get your valve seats made with 0,25 - 0,5 mm wider seat contact, compared to what we would normally do. Ditto with valve spring tension. You need approx 10% more spring pressure because everything is heavier. The reason is that the valve seatings are harder on the seats.
BUT, if you use a decent cam, aluminium pr´s, good adjusters and spend some time getting your rocker arm geometry about spot on as well as shimming the rocker arm assembly tight, most cams with mechanical lifters are not noisy either.
Hope this helps.

If your valve train is good, and the valve job is good, your settings shouldnt change much after the first 1000 miles or so. You should of course check the settings once a year or every 3000 - 4500 miles.
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[modok]

The type1 engine typically didn't have an oil filter, does not have much for oil presdure at idle, and the case has to be split to change a lifter, dont have big oil galleys to the lifters, and often the lifters fit sloppy loose in the magnesium bores, and often they don't get driven regularly.

Hydraulic lifters can work, but the idea of it being less work overall is not likely to prove true.

But it's a fine idea anyway, and I'm not sure why they aren't more popular.

[MTT3107]

OK, my engine does have an oil filter, and good oil pressure at idle.

But anyways, considering all the answers here, plus the fact that I never got an answer from Roy at Mofoco, I'll shelve this idea....

About the work of pulling the engine, and splitting the case to install the lifters :
Yes, it's a lot more work than adjusting the valves, but you would have to do it only once.
If after all that work I have a quiet and almost maintenance free valve train, it would be worth the work. To me, at least.

Chromoly pushrods : tried them, they were noisy as hell.

[modok]

It is not the pushrods that are noisy, it is the actual running lash matching the lash ramp of the cam, and the ramps of the cam

with my web 110, cb lifters shimmed so the pushrid cup isn't loose, aluminum pushrods, porsche swivels, stock shafts solid shims.

I found they were louder at .003 than they were at .006
And the sound would get slightly louder as the heads heated up in the first few stop signs, then quieter as the pushrods heated up in the next few stop signs.
Adjusted the lash maybe 5 times in ten years, engine almost at the end of it's life now.

Another engine with a web 86 and steel pushrods, I set them at around .002"
not much louder, BUT, I don't like how it idles a worse when cold.
Both engines very quiet, needing the case split now after 15 years for other reasons than cam.

And other engine has a CB cam about the same specs, it sounds like a typical old stock VW at any lash setting I tried, but it does idle better when cold.

If the cam does not have good lash ramps it will be noisy at any setting.

[modok]

How long does a muffler last?
Really?
not how long could it last,
how long does the average muffler on a VW actually last?
Without falling off or coming loose or getting holes in it or getting crunched or needing to be welded back together.

I'd much rather adjust the valves. It's nothing, literally a drop of water in a barrel of time, and your already there changing the oil or fixing your muffler or adjusting the clutch or adjusting the brake shoes.

[Max Welton]

I actually have tried a set of Roy's hydraulic lifters. They arrived in a cardboard box and not bagged. I was advised NOT to take them apart for cleaning. I wasn't smart enough to ignore that advise. Sure enough one of the lifters refused to pump up. I'm guessing some tiny bit of crud in there, maybe from when they were assembled.

I actually have a second set from years ago and an SLR cam designed for juicers. EXV264Hyd if anyone cares. Because I already have them I will probably try again just to see if I can get them to work.

Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
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[Alstrup]

Modok brought up a valid point with the lifter bores being worn. I totally overlooked that the first time around. It actually states somewhere that the lifter bores need to be perfect in order for the hyd lifters to work properly.

The type 4, CT and WBX cases are made so that you can replace the lifters without cracking the case. - Not sure about the Brazil hydraulic cases, but I think not.
The CT case had a 30 mm oil pump and a huge recirculation system, just as the WBX case, - for a reason. when the CT case got worn it would also not keep the lifters pumped up more than a day or so. If the case got rebushed it would be all fine again. If not totally banged up the CT case is actually a nice case with its WBX style oil system and filter. But they are getting rare today.
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[BFB]

I think all ya’ll made valid points, but the bores and oil pressure was something i never thought of. I’ve never considered running hydraulic lifters so really never gave this much thought.
Glenn said it doesnt take 15 minutes to adjust valves with chromoly PR’s , i dont think it takes 15 even with aluminum one & a feeler. Then again most of what im working on is open & easy access … Sure, first few time you do it , it might be a little sketchy and your concerned you’ll get it wrong which you might, but you’ll know as soon as you fire it up. And after like the 3rd or 4th time you do it , its easy peasy. and i personally wondered why, before i got into vw’s , the V8 crowd i hung around with made such a bid deal out of solid lifters being a pain in the ass.
Far as noise , as said, if you set them up right , they dont make much noise at all. I actually think they make less noise than all the clicking & ticking new engines do these days. Open the hood on most any 2024 / 2025 vehicle and listen to that thing tickin away… you just dont hear it inside the vehicle
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[Max Welton]

Yes, back when we bought our Subaru I really noticed the valve train noise in each car we looked at. About the only time I listen closely to a modern engine is when I'm about to buy the car. After that I just get in and drive. And of course modern vehicles are really good at keeping noise out of the cabin once you close the door. Especially compared to our ACVWs.

Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836

[modok]

That's mostly pistons slap, unless it was a subaru from the early 90's, with the hydraulic lash adjusters in the rockers... then it was for sure hydraulic lash adjusters not working.
I've always wondered why those all failed to work after awhile, still don't know, but it's been years since I even heard one. But I'm sure I'd remember the sound if I did.