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damagd
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Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 281
Location: Lancaster, PA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 11:37 am Post subject: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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Tried to follow the Bentley install instructions. I have the crank at TDC. Pretty sure that I have it seated. When I rotate the crank, it pushes the drive shaft up a little. Pulled the distributor off of another engine with that engine at TDC, and the slot is lined up differently. Almost flipped around, and it does not push up when I rotate the crank.
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uberaudi
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Joined: June 24, 2013
Posts: 625
Location: Hi-top Country
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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It takes two full rotations of the crank to get back to TDC...maybe you're only halfway there?
You can tell when the dizzy is engaged with the slots when you grab the rotor and see if it spins once the thing is all the way seated. The rotor should line up with the split in the case at TDC.
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'84 Adventurewagen 1Z TDI, '08 Audi Avant Quattro 6spd BHW TDI |
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?Waldo?
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Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9990
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| What method did you use to confirm that you are at TDC for #1 cylinder? Without referencing the valve train you cannot tell if you are at TDC for #1 or #3. |
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damagd
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Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 281
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| What method did you use to confirm that you are at TDC for #1 cylinder? Without referencing the valve train you cannot tell if you are at TDC for #1 or #3. |
I have the plugs out so I could see and I felt with a screwdriver piston number one. And I also had the rocker arms off and readjusted them according to the Bentley. |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52267
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| damagd wrote: |
| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| What method did you use to confirm that you are at TDC for #1 cylinder? Without referencing the valve train you cannot tell if you are at TDC for #1 or #3. |
I have the plugs out so I could see and I felt with a screwdriver piston number one. And I also had the rocker arms off and readjusted them according to the Bentley. |
There are two TDCs for a four stroke engine, you need to make sure that crank is turned to the correct one, which if the engine will run will be when the rotor is pointed at the #1 spark plug wire. If they engine will not run or has not been run since a rebuilt, the process of determining the correct TDC is more involved, but not a big deal. |
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damagd
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Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 281
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| What method did you use to confirm that you are at TDC for #1 cylinder? Without referencing the valve train you cannot tell if you are at TDC for #1 or #3. |
I have the plugs out so I could see and I felt with a screwdriver piston number one. And I also had the rocker arms off and readjusted them according to the Bentley. |
There are two TDCs for a four stroke engine, you need to make sure that crank is turned to the correct one, which if the engine will run will be when the rotor is pointed at the #1 spark plug wire. If they engine will not run or has not been run since a rebuilt, the process of determining the correct TDC is more involved, but not a big deal. |
Ok, yeah, this is on a rebuild, so I'm going to have to try and figure out if I'm tdc for #1 or #3. If I was on TDC for number three when I thought I was on number one, will that affect my rocker arm adjustments? |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52267
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| damagd wrote: |
Ok, yeah, this is on a rebuild, so I'm going to have to try and figure out if I'm tdc for #1 or #3. If I was on TDC for number three when I thought I was on number one, will that affect my rocker arm adjustments? |
Yes it would affect your rocker arm adjustment, though hopefully you would have noticed something awry with the valves. When at TDC Compression, whether for adjusting the valves or installing the distributor drive, you should be able to rock the crank 45° either side of TDC without either rocker moving. |
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damagd
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Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 281
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
Ok, yeah, this is on a rebuild, so I'm going to have to try and figure out if I'm tdc for #1 or #3. If I was on TDC for number three when I thought I was on number one, will that affect my rocker arm adjustments? |
Yes it would affect your rocker arm adjustment, though hopefully you would have noticed something awry with the valves. When at TDC Compression, whether for adjusting the valves or installing the distributor drive, you should be able to rock the crank 45° either side of TDC without either rocker moving. |
I didn't notice anything awry, but I don't really know what I'd be looking for either. I'm just trying to put the engine case back together. I did one of these before about 10 years ago and the engine has been running fine. Don't remember having this much confusion over the distributor drive shaft. Maybe I just got lucky. I'll have to try to find a video or something. Thanks for trying to help, but that 45° rocking of the crank and looking at the rocker thing doesn't make any sense to me. Is there an easier way to explain it? |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52267
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| damagd wrote: |
| but that 45° rocking of the crank and looking at the rocker thing doesn't make any sense to me. Is there an easier way to explain it? |
Set the crankshaft at TDC by aligning the timing marks and then turn the crankshaft in one direction ~45° and then return it to TDC and turn it ~45° in the opposite direction. If neither rocker on the #1 cylinder moves while doing this test then you are at TDC compression and can adjust your valves and/or correctly install the distributor drive according to the book. If however the rocker arms for the #1 cylinder move, you are at the incorrect TDC and need to turn the crankshaft a full 360° clockwise.
Note that the distributor drive may be forced upwards when the engine is turned CCW without the distributor being in place, so you may need to temporarily install the distributor to prevent this. If you need to turn the drive to make it align with how the book shows it installed, you ONLY want to lift it high enough for it to disengage from the brass gear and NO higher. The properly sized (~5/16") dowel forced into the hole in the top of the drive can be used to lift and turn it. |
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damagd
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Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 281
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
| but that 45° rocking of the crank and looking at the rocker thing doesn't make any sense to me. Is there an easier way to explain it? |
Set the crankshaft at TDC by aligning the timing marks and then turn the crankshaft in one direction ~45° and then return it to TDC and turn it ~45° in the opposite direction. If neither rocker on the #1 cylinder moves while doing this test then you are at TDC compression and can adjust your valves and/or correctly install the distributor drive according to the book. If however the rocker arms for the #1 cylinder move, you are at the incorrect TDC and need to turn the crankshaft a full 360° clockwise.
Note that the distributor drive may be forced upwards when the engine is turned CCW without the distributor being in place, so you may need to temporarily install the distributor to prevent this. If you need to turn the drive to make it align with how the book shows it installed, you ONLY want to lift it high enough for it to disengage from the brass gear and NO higher. The properly sized (~5/16") dowel forced into the hole in the top of the drive can be used to lift and turn it. |
Thanks. That was simple to understand. Just did it and both rockers on #1 moved. So I easily removed the dist drive shaft and both washers that it sits on with a magnet and I've loosened all of the rockers to readjust. I feel better about removing the drive shaft the entire way to make sure that I didn't loose either of the washers by only pulling it up a little and turning it. I'll then reinstall the drive shaft. If I'm understanding the Bentley correctly, I start to install it with the small C on the water pump side and the slot pretty much parallel with the split in the case and rotate it clockwise about 45° so that the slot is lined up with cylinder #1 when fully seated. Is this correct? |
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 5666
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| damagd wrote: |
| So I easily removed the dist drive shaft and both washers that it sits on with a magnet |
let us know how it goes re-installing the washers. on my 2.1 i could not get the washers past the drive gear while they were on the shaft. and i had a heckuva time trying to slip the shaft into the two washers resting in position in the case even when i had the case split. YMMV.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52267
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| damagd wrote: |
| If NEITHER rocker on the #1 cylinder moves while doing this test then you are at TDC compression and can adjust your valves and/or correctly install the distributor drive according to the book. |
Sounds like you missed seeing the word NEITHER, please recheck your work. |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52267
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
| So I easily removed the dist drive shaft and both washers that it sits on with a magnet |
let us know how it goes re-installing the washers. on my 2.1 i could not get the washers past the drive gear while they were on the shaft. and i had a heckuva time trying to slip the shaft into the two washers resting in position in the case even when i had the case split. YMMV. |
You just take a screw driver or alignment bar and slide them down the shaft. Put a thin smear of grease on them first to help hold them in place. |
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damagd
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 281
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
| If NEITHER rocker on the #1 cylinder moves while doing this test then you are at TDC compression and can adjust your valves and/or correctly install the distributor drive according to the book. |
Sounds like you missed seeing the word NEITHER, please recheck your work. |
Yeah, they both moved. Neither moved on cylinder number three so I must be TDC on cylinder number three. |
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 5666
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| DanHoug wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
| So I easily removed the dist drive shaft and both washers that it sits on with a magnet |
let us know how it goes re-installing the washers. on my 2.1 i could not get the washers past the drive gear while they were on the shaft. and i had a heckuva time trying to slip the shaft into the two washers resting in position in the case even when i had the case split. YMMV. |
You just take a screw driver or alignment bar and slide them down the shaft. Put a thin smear of grease on them first to help hold them in place. |
yeah, i could get them in the case but could not align them perfectly to accept the drive, always hung up as the shaft tried to enter the washers!
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52267
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| damagd wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
| If NEITHER rocker on the #1 cylinder moves while doing this test then you are at TDC compression and can adjust your valves and/or correctly install the distributor drive according to the book. |
Sounds like you missed seeing the word NEITHER, please recheck your work. |
Yeah, they both moved. Neither moved on cylinder number three so I must be TDC on cylinder number three. |
That sounds correct |
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Povi
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Joined: January 15, 2016
Posts: 18
Location: Kernersville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2025 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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I just did this a couple months ago after living with it 180 out for a couple of years.
I don't remember what was used, a wooden skewer or a cut down tapered chopstick. Jammed it in there. Pulled it up just enough until the gears disengaged and rotated it. Over rotated it 180 plus so it settles in at the right spot. There was a ridge of gunk in the bore that it caught up on that had to be cleaned. A little bit of 0000 steel wool on wrapped on said chopstick like a q-tip as to get the gunk off
Thank you Wildthings, I want to say that these are your instructions from another thread. It took me a while to get the courage up to do it. The fear of losing a washer was thankfully unfounded.
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89' Westy Subaru 2.2 |
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Backtotheeightiesagain
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Joined: November 21, 2023
Posts: 137
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2025 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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I was told that it would only go in one way. Rather than argue the point o just moved on.
Hopefully this will educate many.....
Ps if it's a 50/50 chance with 2 TDC ,daft people could be right half the time. |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52267
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Is this Distributor Drive Shaft installed correctly? |
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| Backtotheeightiesagain wrote: |
I was told that it would only go in one way. Rather than argue the point o just moved on.
Hopefully this will educate many.....
Ps if it's a 50/50 chance with 2 TDC ,daft people could be right half the time. |
The drive can go in 12 different ways IIRC, and some work better than others and it's always nice to have it done by the book so the wiring harness sits the way the factory intended, and the next time you have to deal with the distributor you don't get the plug wires back on wrong. |
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