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beach_brada
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Fayetteville, North Carolina
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 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:44 am Post subject: My Bus' Rear End Is Sagging |
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| Quick question, what causes a bus' rear end to sag(sit lower to the ground than the front) and how do I fix it? |
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Kirwin
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2005
Posts: 415
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:33 am Post subject: |
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You should probably do a search on the topic first. That subject has been hit many times.
Hey, good luck, I have the same problem with my Bus.
CMK
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1978 VW Transporter (DLNDBUS) |
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payton
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2002
Posts: 791
Location: naples,florida
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: |
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before you start looking into a torsion bar adjustment do yourself a favor and put on some new rear shocks. i know the shocks do not real raise the back end, but ater in put new shocks on i noticed a difference just from the rear view mirror. it may help just enough.
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Mike Boyer-All American Crook |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Suggestion:
First adjust the torsion bar and replace the worn bushings back there. It is a lot of work for you, but it doesn't cost much to do in parts. Then do the shocks.
The combo should really improve the steering and stability of the bus, especially in a crosswind. |
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MedicTed
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 2110
Location: King of Prussia, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Remember that the front normally sits high. It makes the back look like it's sagging, but it may not actually be sagging. Have two people sit in the cab and then look at it.
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Ted Wojton
70 VW Bus Westfalia camper
2003 GMC Sierra |
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MHACK
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: rear torsion bar adjustment |
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I recommend buying the torsion bar adjustment tool about 27.00 .It will
make the adjustment alot safer. |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: rear torsion bar adjustment |
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| MHACK wrote: |
I recommend buying the torsion bar adjustment tool about 27.00 .It will
make the adjustment alot safer. |
Where do you get that tool MHack? Got a link? |
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MHACK
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Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 198
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| MedicTed wrote: |
| Remember that the front normally sits high. It makes the back look like it's sagging, but it may not actually be sagging. Have two people sit in the cab and then look at it. |
The other thing is, in most years of bus, it is not possible to see the horizon in the inside rear view mirror. Some people think that this means the rear is sagging, but it is normal.
Find a level piece of ground, put 200 pounds in the front seat, and put a level on the sliding door sill. If it's close to level you're fine.
George |
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renobdarb
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2005
Posts: 878
Location: Eastern Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: Re: My Bus' Rear End Is Sagging |
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| beach_brada wrote: |
| Quick question, what causes a bus' rear end to sag... and how do I fix it? |
Change it's diaper...
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1978 Campmobile, 2000cc w/hydro lifters, dual Weber 44 IDF carbs (50 idle jets, 115 main jets), SVDA distributor w/Compufire. |
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Chrispoage
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Seattle, Washington
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: Re: My Bus' Rear End Is Sagging |
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What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus?
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static
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2002
Posts: 1841
Location: other Desert Cities
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I once paid my mechanic to adjust the bus up one notch. I hated the result.
Went back to the stock "sagging" position.
Really, most of the problem is how it looks when you are not in the bus. |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| static wrote: |
I once paid my mechanic to adjust the bus up one notch. I hated the result.
Went back to the stock "sagging" position.
Really, most of the problem is how it looks when you are not in the bus. |
One notch is way too much! with 44 notches, one notch is 360/44 = 8 degrees. At the end of a ~20 inch trailing arm, 8 degrees is 20sin8 = 3 inches! One notch will make the rear end ride stiff, top out on bumps, and handle rather oddly. You'll also get more tire and CV joint wear.
To do it right, you have to turn the bar one way on the inner end and then the other way on the outer end. The different number of splines on the inner and outer ends allow you to adjust in increments of less than a degree.
George |
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OB Bus
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2003
Posts: 2711
Location: Ocean Beach - San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: Re: My Bus' Rear End Is Sagging |
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| Chrispoage wrote: |
| What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus? |
Yep, have the coil overs on my '69. This was a somewhat ghetto remedy to 15" wheels with too much offset and 205/75R15 Michelins. They work great. Ride and handling much better that the worn out gas-a-justs they replaced and the fender lips now clear the tires.
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Larry in OB
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
69 Westfalia and 2002 Eurovan Camper.
People deserve the Government they voted for. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: My Bus' Rear End Is Sagging |
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| OB Bus wrote: |
| Chrispoage wrote: |
| What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus? |
Yep, have the coil overs on my '69. This was a somewhat ghetto remedy to 15" wheels with too much offset and 205/75R15 Michelins. They work great. Ride and handling much better that the worn out gas-a-justs they replaced and the fender lips now clear the tires. |
Where did you get them? My '71 Westy DOES have a case of droopy drawers.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| nemobuscaptain wrote: |
| payton wrote: |
| before you start looking into a torsion bar adjustment do yourself a favor and put on some new rear shocks... |
I think that is backwards thinkin'. Your torsions should handle the weight of the bus, not the shocks. |
I agree, although VW actually had coil-over helper shocks in the parts book.
It's really important to make sure that the bus is really sagging. All buses sit nose-high without a driver in place!
George |
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OB Bus
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2003
Posts: 2711
Location: Ocean Beach - San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: My Bus' Rear End Is Sagging |
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| Tram wrote: |
| OB Bus wrote: |
| Chrispoage wrote: |
| What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus? |
Yep, have the coil overs on my '69. This was a somewhat ghetto remedy to 15" wheels with too much offset and 205/75R15 Michelins. They work great. Ride and handling much better that the worn out gas-a-justs they replaced and the fender lips now clear the tires. |
Where did you get them? My '71 Westy DOES have a case of droopy drawers. |
From CIP
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C26%2D513%2D001%2DLT
| Quote: |
I think that is backwards thinkin'. Your torsions should handle the weight of the bus, not the shocks.
I agree, although VW actually had coil-over helper shocks in the parts book. |
No the coil overs are not a perfect solution. In my case (due to the non-stock wheels) very necessary. The fact that they were a factory option is often overlooked by the stock zealots.
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Larry in OB
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
69 Westfalia and 2002 Eurovan Camper.
People deserve the Government they voted for. |
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steponmebbbboom
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2004
Posts: 6390
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: My Bus' Rear End Is Sagging |
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| Tram wrote: |
| OB Bus wrote: |
| Chrispoage wrote: |
| What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus? |
Yep, have the coil overs on my '69. This was a somewhat ghetto remedy to 15" wheels with too much offset and 205/75R15 Michelins. They work great. Ride and handling much better that the worn out gas-a-justs they replaced and the fender lips now clear the tires. |
Where did you get them? My '71 Westy DOES have a case of droopy drawers. |
This is not the proper way to remedy the problem. The Bentley manual describes the proper procedure to adjust the torsion bars, the only thing they do not tell you is what a minute (*) means, which IIRC is a 20th of a degree? Last time I posted on this subject I had the manual in front of me.
IMO you do not need the tool to reposition your spring plates. If you put a jackstand under the torsion tube to support the bus and use your floor jack saddle on the end of the spring plate, you can easily remove and reinstall the plate, gently pry outward with a crowbar while the saddle is supporting the wheel end of the plate, and let it down when you are clear of the stop block. Pound with a rubber mallet on the bar end of the plate (I had to use the mallethead as a drift and hit it with a 4lb sledge) to install. Use new rubber bushings. I used this method and had full control of the spring plates at all times, it was completely safe.
Coil over shocks are a band-aid solution. Your bus was designed to use the torsion bars as springs, your back end will be disproportionately stiffer than the front, which will make the bus handle funny.
I suspect the factory coil-overs were part of a package deal that included other upgraded components to return the suspension to some sort of balance. In any case it's cheaper to just adjust the bars correctly, and you will get better results. |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: My Bus' Rear End Is Sagging |
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| Quote: |
I think that is backwards thinkin'. Your torsions should handle the weight of the bus, not the shocks.
I agree, although VW actually had coil-over helper shocks in the parts book. |
No the coil overs are not a perfect solution. In my case (due to the non-stock wheels) very necessary. The fact that they were a factory option is often overlooked by the stock zealots.[/quote]
Apparently, you are talking to me. (???) If so:
1. I'm not a stock zealot. If you have seen my bus or my posts, you'd know that.
2. I know very well that coilovers were factory options and wouldn't mind putting them on my bus. However, my post was not in response to a coilover question, my post was in response to this:
| Quote: |
| before you start looking into a torsion bar adjustment do yourself a favor and put on some new rear shocks. i know the shocks do not real raise the back end, but ater in put new shocks on i noticed a difference just from the rear view mirror. it may help just enough. |
To which, I again say, this is ass backwards. Adjust the torsion bars (assuming they are out of spec which may or may not be the case), then think about shocks.
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