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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2832
Location: Long Island, NY
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 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
Wow so a guy with no specialized knowledge just recycled a bunch of the oldest automotive myths, did no investigation to determine whether they were even remotely true, and then posted it up on a blog for clicks? Next you'll tell me there's porn on the internet these days!
To save everybody the time and to avoid providing the guy click-based income, it's just a laundry list of the main unsafe car myths of the last 50 years, Pinto, Vega, Audi 5000, Corvair, etc. with just a little blurb for each recycling the old wives' tales we've all heard, most of which turned out to be false. |
Motor Junkie is 'famous' for these types of articles. Apparently written by fifth graders, they are mostly suppositions, hearsay, generalizations, and assertions. Basically crap.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch' |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17003
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Abscate 
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23515
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:57 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| Quote: |
| Next you'll tell me there's porn on the internet these days! |
Wait, can we discuss this?
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🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊 |
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jAndrew
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2020
Posts: 306
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:36 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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After a long career in fire rescue and pre-hospital emergency care in the city of Atlanta is this:
Wear a seat belt, it is a no brainer. Get your head otta your rear and pay attention to everything around you. When a light turns green look left, right, and left again even though it's green. Avoid driving in other vehicles blind spots.
It matters not what vehicle you are in- if the impact is in the wrong spot you might be injured. U've seen low speed crashed with fatalities and many horrendous high speed crashed with no injury.
No vehicle is safe in the wrong hands.
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'89 Syncro Doka |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 5559
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:43 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| jAndrew wrote: |
| When a light turns green look left, right, and left again even though it's green. |
but how am i supposed to look at the phone in my lap if if my head is up and doing all that??
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10352
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:24 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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Interesting thing about that graph above showing predicted vs actual injuries. It's missing WHO did the data but I'm guessing NHTSA - an American company. Note that EVERY American car did worse than their ratings, and EVERY imported car did better than their ratings. Talk about bias!
The same is true over the years with fuel economy. EPA ratings often rated American cars higher than they later performed and the opposite was true of imported car.
Plain and simple, these folks were in the pocket of US automakers.
I used to work for GM headquarters and this would always piss me off when I ran across these examples of deliberate bias. Heck, GM had it's own EPA testing facility and the EPA let them "self test and self rate" these figures without verifying them. I heard from several people that the rollers in the GM facility were deliberately a different diameter to slightly increase EPA figures. Probably continues to this day.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10507
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:38 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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I didn't click on it, didn't wanna reward the clickbait.
(but I would like to see the video dangit)
============
Regarding Kamz image....
Makes sense the small engine & reduced speed is a little safer.
And the drivers were 'older'.
Note the entire Vanagon data bar exists below the 20% under 30 yo line.
Vanagon drivers are like Volvo drivers (old farts driving slow).
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 51970
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:40 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| IdahoDoug wrote: |
Interesting thing about that graph above showing predicted vs actual injuries. It's missing WHO did the data but I'm guessing NHTSA - an American company. Note that EVERY American car did worse than their ratings, and EVERY imported car did better than their ratings. Talk about bias!
The same is true over the years with fuel economy. EPA ratings often rated American cars higher than they later performed and the opposite was true of imported car.
Plain and simple, these folks were in the pocket of US automakers.
I used to work for GM headquarters and this would always piss me off when I ran across these examples of deliberate bias. Heck, GM had it's own EPA testing facility and the EPA let them "self test and self rate" these figures without verifying them. I heard from several people that the rollers in the GM facility were deliberately a different diameter to slightly increase EPA figures. Probably continues to this day. |
The statement I made above which is supported by the graphs posted later came from the insurance industry, IIRC.
Being biased can come back to haunt. For years many airlines would state ETAs that were 15 minutes earlier than the flights could reasonably be expected to arrive, this was to make people believe those flight were getting them there a bit faster, but in reality it was making for problems at the arrival airport including making spouses or business associates have to wait 15 minutes longer. Once it became easy for people to look up an airline on time arrival percentage then it also caused a loss of business, because who wants to arrive perpetually late?
Last edited by Wildthings on Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mikemtnbike
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Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2906
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:15 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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I had no injuries when I was hit other than some muscle stiffness. Nothing long-term. There are a lot of pre-airbag vehicles that would have had a much different result for me. A LOT.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6342
Location: Portland OR
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8354
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:49 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| IdahoDoug wrote: |
Interesting thing about that graph above showing predicted vs actual injuries. It's missing WHO did the data but I'm guessing NHTSA - an American company. Note that EVERY American car did worse than their ratings, and EVERY imported car did better than their ratings. Talk about bias!
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No, it isn't:
| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| As for the Vanagon, IIHS produced this in 1991 |
If you want to read the entire report: http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr2604.pdf .
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~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 4399
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| Sodo wrote: |
I didn't click on it, didn't wanna reward the clickbait.
(but I would like to see the video dangit)
============
Vanagon drivers are like Volvo drivers (old farts driving slow). |
Awesome.... I was a Volvo driver with a well loved '79 242 when I was still young... which means I guess I was a 'young slow fart' back then....  
But definitely faster than I was in the '68 Camper, and better heat too.... 
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Red Ryder
Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2021
Posts: 1121
Location: PNW — Washington
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:06 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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Now that’s impressive — and with a fiberglass front bumper as well!
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“Most everyone’s mad here. You may have noticed I am not quite all there myself.” — Cheshire Cat, Adventures of Alice in Wonderland
“Scarlett” — 1990 Vanagon Carat Wolfsburg Edition (Tornado Red)
“Nigel” — 1999 Jaguar XK8 convertible (Alpine Green Metallic) |
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dabaron
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Joined: June 21, 2018
Posts: 2691
Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:44 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| Red Ryder wrote: |
Now that’s impressive — and with a fiberglass front bumper as well! |
i did 3K of damage to an Audi with one of those bumpers. reports of them being flimsy or weak are not my experience.
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1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8354
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| Red Ryder wrote: |
Now that’s impressive — and with a fiberglass front bumper as well! |
I would argue that the fiberglass front bumper cover aids in crash protection versus the early vans, because the actual bumper is this:
The early vans have thin, flimsy chrome covering ^that.
The rear of the Vanagon, however, is a whole different ballgame.
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~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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SlalomVan
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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I am a true believer in the structural integrity and overall safety of the Vanagon!
This hit and run head-on collision happened here in Seattle about a year and half ago. The black car was heading in the opposite direction as me and veered into my lane. I was traveling at approximately 25-30 miles an hour. The police estimated that the other driver (impaired) was going about 40 miles an hour. It all happened so fast. I didn't see it coming and there was absolutely no chance to avoid it. The front windshield came out and launched (along with my iPhone) about 100 feet down the block. The steering column disconnected as designed. The spare tire was in the clamshell and pushed under the passenger compartment. What you can't see in these photos is how the entire roof buckled just behind the front seats. The drivers side door opened relatively easy, the passenger front door had to be pried open. The slider had to be forcefully opened.
Despite our beloved vehicles not having airbags we had relatively minor injuries and my son and I were able to walk away from this head-on collision. Albeit, with badly brushed chests, broken ribs and my son had a pretty deep laceration on the back of his hand from bracing himself on the dash.
It could have been a lot worse!
_________________
1989 Vanagon GL - 2.1 (White - "Northlake" Totaled/Gone)
1988 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg (Orly Blue - "Poulsbo" - Sold)
1989 Vanagon G - 2.1 (White - "Kingston") - Full rebuild underway - Last on the road in 1997 |
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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6342
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| SlalomVan wrote: |
I am a true believer in the structural integrity and overall safety of the Vanagon!
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Wow, almost exactly my story except on the driver side. Someone crossed over into my lane and hit me head on. happened so quick there was no avoidance. Glad you were mostly ok!
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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Red Ryder
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Joined: June 26, 2021
Posts: 1121
Location: PNW — Washington
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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Now we are seeing real life photos and actual driver testimonies. Probably far more reliable than graphs or simulated conditions with crash test dummies.
_________________
“Most everyone’s mad here. You may have noticed I am not quite all there myself.” — Cheshire Cat, Adventures of Alice in Wonderland
“Scarlett” — 1990 Vanagon Carat Wolfsburg Edition (Tornado Red)
“Nigel” — 1999 Jaguar XK8 convertible (Alpine Green Metallic) |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 51970
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| Red Ryder wrote: |
Now we are seeing real life photos and actual driver testimonies. Probably far more reliable than graphs or simulated conditions with crash test dummies.
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As I stated above, one of the advantages of the Vanagon is that the crumple zone isn't compromised by having to allow for the installation of the engine-transmission package, not only does this help when doing a 50% frontal hit in a crash test, but it helps with all kinds of impacts which would be hard to model separately. |
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2832
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| SlalomVan wrote: |
| This hit and run head-on collision |
The impaired driver actually ran away (because the car certainly didn't go anywhere)?
Glad you both came out of it as well as you did.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch' |
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