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Timjones71
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2015
Posts: 18
Location: Hendersonville TN
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 Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| The carburetor was just rebuilt by a mechanic friend of mine. I'm not saying that he couldn't have made a mistake, but are there any other things you would look at? If nothing else, I can always go back through it to make sure a mistake wasn't made or maybe he missed something. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16779
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| Timjones71 wrote: |
| It is right behind the spark plug wires and just below The choke solenoid. |
That is actually the "idle cutoff solenoid". It cuts the flow of fuel to the idle circuit when the ignition is turned OFF; thus preventing engine run on which was common before the addition.
| Timjones71 wrote: |
| I tested it again this morning and it is still running bad after it warms up it tries to die automatically whenever the choke starts fully opening. I will have to search for more leaks now that I have these fixed. |
Did you check if your JB Weld patch is leaking?
I'd suggest you take a close look at the junction where the throttle shaft exits the body of the carb. On my carb I sprayed "around" the base of the carb and the throttle linkage and saw no change. But when I inserted the straw into the nozzle of the spray can and pointed right where the carb body + throttle shaft + throttle linkage all meet... the idle dropped off every time. It turned out the throttle shaft bore on my carb was worn out and letting air in. I sent the carb off to be rebushed and it came back just like new!
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13701
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| Timjones71 wrote: |
| The carburetor was just rebuilt by a mechanic friend of mine. I'm not saying that he couldn't have made a mistake, but are there any other things you would look at? If nothing else, I can always go back through it to make sure a mistake wasn't made or maybe he missed something. |
Follow Ashman's advice. Get a can of carb/brake cleaner with a straw. Spray around the carb's throttle shaft. Spray where it mounts to the manifold. Spray the carb manifold rubber boots at the end caps by the heads. Some leakage at the throttle shaft is fine.
The other thing you can try is your carb adjustments. When it's going off choke, it's leaning out. Why don't you start it up. While it's idling on choke, go to the engine compartment. Stay by the throttle so you can catch it from dying when the choke kicks off. Turn counter clockwise the volume screw (the small one) on the left side of the carb. See if unscrewing it 1/2 to 1 turn will make it idle. You may have the adjustments wrong.
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Timjones71
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2015
Posts: 18
Location: Hendersonville TN
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| I took off the carb and took off the top of the bowl. Inspected everything visually. Blew out passages replaced gasket on carb mount. Sprayed carb cleaner around all joints on intake manifold. No leaks heard. Very minor on the throttle linkage shaft. Sometime you'd hear a slight change in idle, sometimes not. I took out the air volume screw. Replaced o ring, threads are good. Took out the bigger idle screw, same, good. Dot of oil to get them both in and good slip fit, not a dry fit. Bottomed both out and started from 2.5 turns out. Started car cold. Same thing.... I held choke flap closed and it runs great. I turned air volume screw in all the way closed, still same. I checked all joints with carb spray while at this setting. No change. It's got to be getting air from somewhere. Has to breath. Choke fully closed, runs, even partially open will die. ARG!!!! What am I missing. I need a VW carb guy in the North of Nashville area. |
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Timjones71
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2015
Posts: 18
Location: Hendersonville TN
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| Ok I took apart everything to check to see if mechanic missed something in cleaning process. We did do a gas tank removal and clean because of rust after it was rebuilt so there was a good chance maybe some rust or crud got past the fuel filter. All Jets were clean. Top air emulsion jet was a 75. Main jet in bottom of bowl was a 127.5 and pilot jet on side was a 55. All clean. When I took apart the Idle Cut Off Solenoid to blow out the passages I figured why not test it? DOESN'T WORK. Could this be the root of problem? Car runs at idle til warm then as choke starts to move car dies. Maybe it wasn't getting too much air. No vacuum leaks. Maybe it was starving for fuel? Please advise. I had a spare and I tested it on 12V, it functioned properly so I swapped it. Going to test after I put everything back together. [/b] |
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David_nc_72std
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015
Posts: 839
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| Timjones71 wrote: |
| When I took apart the Idle Cut Off Solenoid to blow out the passages I figured why not test it? DOESN'T WORK. Could this be the root of problem? Car runs at idle til warm then as choke starts to move car dies.[/b] |
That would cause the problem. The choke spring controls the fast idle cam, which holds the throttle open to increase the idle speed. When the choke is fully open, the throttle is sitting on the lowest step of the fast idle cam, and on a 34 pic 3 the throttle plate is practically fully closed - the air/fuel mixture at idle is supplied through a side passage in the carb body that flows past the two adjustment screws and the plunger on the cutoff solenoid, so if the plunger never opens the air/fuel mixture is blocked off and the engine can't run. |
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Timjones71
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2015
Posts: 18
Location: Hendersonville TN
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| That was it! Bad idle cut off solenoid. Switched it out. Problem solved. It started up and I was able to adjust from factory settings. Thx to all. |
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mrkrause
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Vass, North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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Yep.....I’ve got a 1600 DP, solex 34, 009 distributor.......same problem once the screw drops down to the bottom of fast idle cam, engine won’t idle anymore....just dies.
Today:
-Lashed the valves to .006
-new NGK B6HS plugs gaped to .026
-new plug wires
-replaced points, set at .016.....check with dwell/ tach 48°
-new rotor and cap
-set timing advance about 5°
I read this thread tonight....ran back out to check idle cutoff solenoid. Turned key to on, pulled wire terminal off solenoid and retouched it “click” ......sounds like it’s working.
I have a fuel pressure regulator with gauge on this motor.......running about 2# psi.
After warming up......with the top set screw (bypass) a couple turns out, and the bottom screw(volume or fuel/air mixture) 2 1/2 turns out.....the butterfly is fully open.....I gotta keep a finger on the throttle to keep it running. And even while keeping it running, turning the bypass or fuel/Air screws makes no difference at all.
What am I missing? |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16779
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| mrkrause wrote: |
| -set timing advance about 5° |
Is this 5ATDC or 5BTDC?
Some years the stock carb + DVDA distributor should be set at 5ATDC. The 009 should be no where near this. The 009 idle timing should be somewhere between 5~15BTDC, but you really want to make sure it doesn't over advance when the rpms are up. At no point should the 009 exceed 28-32BTDC... at any rpm. If it advances above 32BTDC you run the chance of detonation at high rpms under load.
| mrkrause wrote: |
| After warming up......with the top set screw (bypass) a couple turns out, and the bottom screw(volume or fuel/air mixture) 2 1/2 turns out.....the butterfly is fully open.....I gotta keep a finger on the throttle to keep it running. And even while keeping it running, turning the bypass or fuel/Air screws makes no difference at all. |
The Bypass and volume screws ONLY work when the throttle plate is nearly completely closed. As soon as the throttle plate opens it exposes the progression circuit which starts flowing fuel. So if you have to hold the throttle open to keep the engine from dying you will never be able to adjust the idle with the Bypass or volume screws.
That you need to open the throttle suggests there is a problem with the idle circuit. Two common issues:
- vacuum (air) leak allowing the idle mixture to lean out and run rough.
- clogged idle circuit preventing fuel from flowing. Usually you need to soak the carb overnight and blow all the passages clear.
Also check the pilot jet as this is a key component at idle. If it is clogged the flow of fuel at idle is compromised.
At idle, the fuel flow is so small/low anything that impacts air flow or fuel flow has a BIG impact and is hard to adjust out. Once the idle increases and the progression circuit and other fuel enhancement circuits start to kick in, small (and even moderate) changes in fuel or air are insignificant and don't make a noticeable difference.
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13701
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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"IF" you are 100% sure you don't have any obvious vacuum leaks and the carb is adjusted correctly, in all likelihood, you have something clogging the idle circuit in the carb. One note though. Everyone assumes you have to be in the 2.5 turns from closed on the volume adjustment screw. In some cases, you have to open it up to 3 or even 3.5 turns out to achieve idle.
The best way to clean the carb is to totally disassemble it. Then put all the parts in an ultrasonic parts cleaner with hot water and degreaser. Run it for 30 minutes and it will vibrate all the tiny passage clean.
Pull from the ultrasonic machine, rinse off in clean water and then blow all the passages out with compressed air. Make sure all the jets are clean and clear, reassemble and try again.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 8242
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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More than 4 turns out is not unusual as a base starting point on a 34-3 or 34-4, even volkzbitz instructions used to recommend that for the two I bought from him a few years back.
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mrkrause
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Vass, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:47 am Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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Ashman40......it is 5° BTDC.
This carb was taken apart and cleaned not too long ago, but we’ll do it again. I’ll try to find someone who has an ultra sonic parts cleaner.....or I’ll just get some Berryman and soak it overnight, then blow it out well.
This buggy was running fine until the last day on a 3 day buggy event. Started back firing going down hills, and stalling at interesections or while not under load. |
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vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 8242
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:48 am Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| mrkrause wrote: |
Started back firing going down hills, and stalling at interesections or while not under load. |
MrKrause, I've only had that happen when points go bad or slip and the gap closes. I've had backfiring going downhill but only the smaller sounding ones that result from running too lean.
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...we hardly knew ye. Sold 2025 for peanuts.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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mrkrause
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Vass, North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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So.......completely disassembled carburetor.....soaked overnight in Berryman.....reassembled......New o-rings on bypass screw and volume screw (they were completely shot).....
After I reinstalled the carburetor....started it up.....let it warm up.....still wouldn’t idle until I backed the pilot jet out a half turn. I pulled the pilot jet off found a thin washer that would keep the pilot jet held out a little. Now it would idle so I could check timing, readjust bypass & volume screws and BAM ! We are back in business !!
I’m glad it’s running smooth again, but it’s killing me that it came down to a dirty carburetor. I put a premium fuel filter on it time, so hopefully this issue won’t repeat for awhile. Plus I now know the condition and status of all the components I either replaced or adjusted.
I appreciate all the help and advise y'all have given me !
Ken Krause |
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bnam
Samba Member
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Posts: 3550
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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If the retard side of a DVDA can fails and I decide to use it like an SVDA can timed at 7.5deg, Does the carb throttle plate hole now need to be made smaller with a rivet? Or is there something else that's different between the DVDA and SVDA allow the carb to work well in "SVDA" mode with a DVDA distributor?
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16779
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| bnam wrote: |
| If the retard side of a DVDA can fails and I decide to use it like an SVDA can timed at 7.5deg, Does the carb throttle plate hole now need to be made smaller with a rivet? |
This is the thread you want to read:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365762
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26637
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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I just noticed that I'm not seeing the "hole size image" where I went and used precision 21 and 30 drill bits in DVDA and SVDA throttle butterflys - I've posted this image many times in such threads but I'm rather surprised to see I did not do it here. And so, here it is!
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63vdubbug
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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Hello - Bringing up an old thread here. Needing suggestions. My bug is older with a 1600 SP. Just purchased a SVDA (Pertronix) and got a deal on a Solex (german) 34 pict 3 carb which looks to be in great shape, very clean.
After doing some research I may have a 34 pict 3 for a DVDA distributor. Getting ready to rebuild the carb, but wanted to know if I should already tackle by making the hole smaller on the lower throttle plate mentioned in this thread? or, should I look for a 34 pict 3 specifically for a SVDA. |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4149
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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It's quick and easy to throw a rivet in the throttle plate hole. If that doesn't do the trick, it's also
quick and easy to remove it. I have SVDA dist., and I completely blocked hole in 34 PICT-3 plate with rivet, best thing I ever did. Carb always adjusts perfect now, had endless problems before.
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63vdubbug
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3 |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
It's quick and easy to throw a rivet in the throttle plate hole. If that doesn't do the trick, it's also
quick and easy to remove it. I have SVDA dist., and I completely blocked hole in 34 PICT-3 plate with rivet, best thing I ever did. Carb always adjusts perfect now, had endless problems before. |
Appreciate the response, Kreemoweet. The distributor and carb isn't on the car yet. Yours is completely sealed off? does the rivet protruding on the throttle plate causes any issues? |
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