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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32658
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6368
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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 Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Sometimes decisions are made based upon finances.
I've dumped a butt load of $$'s into this Van lately.
The thought of spending the amount of coin needed for top quality control arm bushings from T3 or simikar require is daunting amount right now.
I'm considering going with a more common, less exotic option right now knowing that the risk of noise is high and premature failure even higher.
Right now Ive got more time than money.
Soe ay call this short sighted or fool hardy but facts are facts and sometimes you need to do something that serves the needs of the moment. |
The Whiteline are not that expensive, and they often offer 20% off coupons regularly throughout the year. You'll have to redo alignment, that's money there... It's cheaper to do it right, now.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6833
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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So amazingly I too have UCA bushing gone bad.
Obviously to nut is off center and reading in the Bently on page 40.5a it states that it is no longer good because the nut is coming in contact with the "support ring" So I definitely need to change it. It's not like there was a lot of material there to not wear through!
Touching the support ring.
I have a set of Febi bushings and following this thread I took a close look at the seal under the white ring and on all four of them it looks like the seal is not being retained underneath the white ring evenly. I do not know if there is a lip on the bottom side ofthe white ring that is designed to keep it there.
Seeing Alika's post about adding the zerk fittings and seeing how the grease came out by the white ring I would place bets this would happen to mine.
Link
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6368
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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The plastic ring is not fused with the rubber bushing, that's normal.
These things are shit for Syncro, maybe a 2WD with ther zerk fittings will last longer. I'm going back to PU soon. I wish there was a way to grease them. I'm gonna scratch my head to maybe make a custom sleeve to the PU bushings so they can be regreased.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4811
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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The polyurethane bushings, white or purple, have an incredible ease of movement that translates into a compliant ride. My 89 has new ‘normal’ bushings, the 87 poly. The ride difference is pretty obvious. No way will I ever install non poly. If I keep the 89, I’ll likely take out the new bushings and put poly in. It’s that much different
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6833
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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Looking at that long bolt that goes through the UCA & bushings -it is 18mm dia where it is round. The bushing's hole is 18.65 +-. That 1/2 mm play. I expected this to be a tighter fit, but I guess the tire takes up the play for a camber adjustment.
Granted the eccemtric washers set the adjustment I still expected a closer tolerance fit.
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There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32658
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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Be it right or be it wrong, I just ordered the Whiteline stuff from T3.
Thanks for the tip Alika.
I find this bushing stuff horribly confusing, there are so many choices, so many options, you need a set of calipers to measure your sway bar and then somehow you need to measure the opening for the sway bar bushing.... 19 or 21 mm?
How the f#@! Do you do that without taking it apart?!?!
I ordered both sizes..... one will fit.
But whiteline doesn't do the radius arm bushings! 🤷♂️
I went to VanAgain and ordered them plus a radius arm.
I ordered all the hardware that T3 offers, I fully expect my front end to be a rusty mass!
I may need to order more hardware depending upon how the first side goes.
I'm feeling over whelmed and even more broke now!
All told, I am in well over $600 dollars just for bushings and new hardware....... why am I depressed right now..........?
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4811
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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Well you didn't HAVE to order everything! The Whiteline was the smart choice,- you’ll love the installation and compliant movement. I chickened out on doing the other bushings looking at all the rust. Did you get the extra container of Bushing Snot? I snotted everything bushing related up for better or worse.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32658
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7758
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| The polyurethane bushings, white or purple, have an incredible ease of movement that translates into a compliant ride. My 89 has new ‘normal’ bushings, the 87 poly. The ride difference is pretty obvious. No way will I ever install non poly. If I keep the 89, I’ll likely take out the new bushings and put poly in. It’s that much different |
Dang! Wish I’d seen this earlier. I have a full package of new rubber bushings was gonna put in later this spring.
I figured the OG rubber lasted this long…(or did they)…??? Anyway, watch the classifieds for my bushings ad… 
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6833
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| djkeev wrote: |
All told, I am in well over $600 dollars just for bushings and new hardware....... why am I depressed right now..........? |
You're only feeling depressed because you haven't finished installing them yet!
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32658
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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As I mentioned previously, I find the ordering of front end parts a daunting and confusing task.
I think that I know more terms and how things work than others may, but the various options and choices and incomplete stock in a given brand and the intermixing of brands in the listing........ my head hurt.
Christopher from T3 kindly reached out to me to help clear the choices.
I appreciated that.
Good people......
i have an order on the way from T3 with everything in Whiteline but the Radius Rod bushings. They aren't made by Whiteline and I didn't want to spring for the big $$ ones so I ordered them from Ken at VanAgain.
Anyway I thought I would post photos of my front end that helped me decide what to order.
Mine is a late model 1990 GL
#1 my sway bar is 19mm diameter........
#2 Upper control arm bushing, 2 per side
This photo also shows the upper control arm bolt end and nut
#3 Sway Bar below the upper control arm bushing you see the horizontal bar, this is the sway bar. They come in three diameters....... 19mm, 21 mm and 23mm.
You MUST KNOW THE DIAMETER! Christopher said an easy gauge is to take open end wrenches and slip them over the bar.
It needs two central mounts and two round end mounts, all of the same diameter, I didn't have this photo and got confused about the round end bushing...... even when asked I wasn't clear on it, color me stupid.
#4 Below the Sway Bar is the steering rack and tie rods. This is the item with the accordion boots on it.
The steering rack has rubber mounts that go bad and allow small uncontrolled movement of the rack while driving, this can contribute to wandering and being unstable in a cross wind.
I ordered new mounts.
#5 the sway bar has a vertical link at eack end, the stabilizer link.
This link has a round bushing at the top that the end of the sway bar slips into.
On the bottom are two bushings where it mounts to the lower control arm.
#6 the lower control arm has one mount to the brame with a large rubber bushing.
Sadly I failed to take a photo of this bushing, I'll add one after the rain stops.
#7 On the bottom of this photo is the Radius Rod. It fastens to the lower control arm with a solid mechanical connection.
The other end seen in the 2nd photo shows where it fastens to the body with two large rubber bushings.
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1650
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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Additionalninfo to #5: the end link lower bushes differ early vs late.
IIRC the early ones for the forged (curved) end links are taller.
Early partr: 251411039
Late partnr: 411513121
The change was in modek year '85 (vin year F)
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32658
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6368
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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