Off road camshaft??

[[email protected]]

Hey guys,
building my first vw engine. have a fully machined ready to go as41 case stroker relieved and opened to 94. i plan on using big valve stage 2 p&p heads from carkraft with dual 44s and match ported manifolds. i plan on using a forged counterweighted 82mm crank and steel on steel straight cut cam gears.looking for advice on my cam. it is going into a two seater sandrail. i was told a vz grind would work well with this particular application. suggestions?

[Dusty1]

VZs are hard on the valvetrain. They're a good cam choice for race engines that come apart after each event. Feel like bein' elbows deep in your motor or or do you want to put it together once and ride some dunes?

I'd go the other way and use an Engle FK41. It's meant to be used with 1.5 rockers but more to the point it balances performance and reliability.

.
.

[Brian_e]

You pick the cam based on the intended RPM range you are hoping to make power in.

Do you want low RPM power up to around 5500rpm? Or maybe more midrange like 3000-6500rpm?? Or do you think yo need a 4500-7500 rpm screamer?

Be honest with yourself. Going to big is usually worse than going to small.

Brian
_________________
www.type-emotorsports.com

[vwracerdave]

Gearing and tire size are also important in selecting a cam for an off-road buggy.

My gut is smelling an Engle FK-43 with 1.4 rockers.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[QRP]

This may sound totally boring but . . . .
Put a W110 in it and be a happy camper, there's a reason it's the most popular cam out there.

IMHO

[MuzzcoVW]

[[email protected]]

Thank you guys all advice is welcome. i was told about the vz grind by a very well renowned machinist/racer/vw mechanic. but ill be interested in looking into the fk grinds. honestly looking for a mid range power band 3000 to 5500

[Brian_e]

[Vanapplebomb]

What kind of “off road” driving? That makes a HUGE difference. For sand dunes, a higher duration/lift (mid-high rpm power) is nice because you can down shift and put your foot in it to power your way to the top. For trail driving, I find big cams a pain in the butt. Keep those mild for good low-mid rpm power. Makes driving a dream, and you don’t have to drive with your foot in it. Much more pleasurable.

For trail riding, the worst things you can do for a driving experience is go too big on the cam, too high of flow on the heads (given the power), and using oversized carbs. Those three things kill your midrange grunt.

Unless you want to drive the exact same way your “expert” drives, I would t put much stock into his suggestion. It is only valid for the type of power and and engine setup he has.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[[email protected]]

sorry guys it'll be a 2276... and i agree with the fact that his suggestion might not be great for my particular application,ipso facto I'm here for more advice itll be really for all around off roading. i live in socal so i have it all

[Dan Ruddock]

X2 on the 163 with 1.3 rockers.

Dan

[BFB]

I’d posted something about a VZ a while back and most people were dogging the cam for it being high lift and harsh on the valve train but i know there was at least one ‘ol boy that said he’d been running one for years.
It’s funny, the 110 and vz15 are actually pretty close in specs with duration at 247 & 250 respectively and opening & closing events within no more than 5* of each other. Biggest difference is the amount of lift with the vz15 being 435 at the cam, .043 more than the 110. Which really isn’t that much lift, ive been running a 2241 for over 7 years and lift at cam on it is 424. Lift on the web 163 is 422 but i dont have specs on opening & closing events on it. I’m putting a 2246 into a 1968cc right now and lift on it at cam is 452.
I dunno, just seems most cams recommended on here are low lift,( 390 range )but will often be suggested to run ratios with them. I get its easier on the rest of the valve train but its also boring and its obvious that higher lift cams can be run and wont trash an engine in 5000 miles.

Right now im also building an 1801cc ( 85.5 x 78.4 ) and put a vz15 in it. It’ll be going in a rail that’ll be used for trail riding / overlanding & camping. With the shorter duration and early intake closing it should be able to pull good at lower rpm. I’d say give the vz15 a try OP, if it fits, all depends where you want that rpm…
Although i also like doing something different, right or wrong
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[richparker]

I run a VZ25 in a 2175 with IDF48s. It’s a blast!
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[bugguy1967]

You should probably sleeve your lifter bores with any VZ cams.
_________________
"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine"

[petrol punk]

I've got an old B series 1600SP dual relief case that has badly wobbled out lifter bores. If I get it sleeved it would be safe to run a VZ cam even in a daily driver? I'm not sure if it would still wear out the sleeves or maybe still wobble out the sleeve bores on the softer mag case.
_________________
36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval, '70 bug 1835cc dual 36DRLA, and a '98 4x4 5spd single cab Tacoma

[Dan Ruddock]

The VZ cams are hard on all of your valve train, they do make good power with stock rockers. The right cam with 1.3 or 1.4 ratio rockers will make even more power and be easier on your valve train. The choice is simple.

[Alstrup]

VZ cams are somewhat agressive, yes.
They can support very good power for their respective rpm bands, yes.
They are NOT necessarily as hard on the valve train as many claim. The main reason is - once again - that everybody assume that you run super heavy Engle lifter, cromemoly pr´s and the toughest dual springs you can fined, because "the cam is so agressive that you need that much spring pressure" Well, you may, and you may not need that. Personally those cams are not my first choice, but a decent durability set up can be done with a little careful selection of parts.

The use of a lighter lifter, aluminum pr´s and finding the valve tension NECESSARY for the cam- and rpm range you want the engine to work in, can change that radically. For instance, A VZ 15 will live happilly together with a set of Dan´s Beehive springs. and a good set of say Smith Bro´s pr´s. Or a set of CB 650 outer springs along with Ti retainers.
Another thing regarding the use of high lift cams is the need to prepare the case for it. When you use cams like that it is paramount to notch the oil supply holes in the lifter bores so the lifters get the oil they actually need, both to lube themselves, but even more to supply enough oil to the rocker arms. When I use high lift cams like that I do this, and have done for at least 15 years. I have never experienced lifter bore- or oil supply issues with Web 218´s, CB 2240, and a handfull of VZ 14/15 cams.
If you go into the higher rpm cams like say VZ 25/FK 43 & up you probably should sleeve the lifter bores.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[richparker]

I’m using 044 heads with dual springs and the cam bearings were notched. I don’t have a tach, but it pulls good from idle to about 5000 rpms.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[vwracerdave]

Sad to see all the folks that are bored to death with all the 40-50 year old cams. Lots of old wives tales and myths that follow them. New guys that insist there is something more modern and newer that has to be better. All of us are still playing around with these 50, 60, & 70 year old VW's

The VZ series cams were designed for off-road racing back in the 70's where class rules limited you to a single carb and stock ratio rockers. If you're building an engine with dual carbs and 1.4 ratio rockers the FK series cams (also ground in the 70's) are a much better choice for power and longevity.

I have an 1835cc built 30 years ago with a VZ-25 cam, cast crank, and cast pistons. I've put 600 1/4 mile passes and 30K street miles on it and still running great sitting under the bench as a back-up spare.

Weather you choose Engle cams or Web cams is just a personal preference just like arguing between a Ford or a Chevy.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[Alstrup]