Turn signals don't work

[martyrg]

I have a 1978 Baywindow Bus that I aquired last summer. It is in overall good condition. I have been going through it and correcting problems as I find them.

When I move the turn signal stalk up or down, the turn signals (left or right, front and back) do not come on. The dash indicator will light up and stay on steady until a cancel the turn signal switch. I have verified that the bulbs and sockets are good because the emergency flashers are working at all four corners of the bus when I pull out that switch. I am aware that the ignition switch must be in the RUN position for the turn signals to work.

I have verified that the turn signal switch is good by ohming out the switch contacts and exercising the switch. I have been studying the schematic diagram in my Bentley book, but haven't figured out how the flasher circuit works.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[busdaddy]

Trying a new flasher relay could improve things, or at least you'll have a spare.
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[telford dorr]

Something's funky with the blue wire between the flasher relay and the 4-way flasher switch or the black/white/green wire between the 4-way flasher switch and the turn switch. Touching a test light probe to either of these wires (key on) should cause the test light to flash.

Perchance, do you have LED turn bulbs installed?
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[martyrg]

No LED bulbs. I'll get out my test light and do the testing you suggest.

[skree]

I had the same issue. It was the flasher relay. I bought a new one, but I was able to get the old one unstuck by putting a strong magnet on the side of the relay. I didn’t even have to pull it from its spot. So now my signals are working and I have a spare relay.

Eric
‘76 Westy: Steve Austin

[Heathintexas]

I'm not usually one to suggest with starting by throwing new parts at a problem. But on this one, start with the relay. It's easy to access and is only 5 bucks.
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[mikedjames]

Because the lights flash when the hazard switch is pulled out, it is probably not the flasher relay. More likely it is the hazard switch falling apart or loose wires. Or less likely the indicator switch is faulty maybe.
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[martyrg]

I pulled the three pronged turn signal relay out of the fuse block. Using a spare car battery that is at 12.5v, I hooked the positive lead to terminal 49 and the negitive lead to terminal 31. From 49 to 49A I'm reading 6v. From 31 to 49A I'm reading 6.5v. Both readings are steady state on a Fluke digital meter.

Flasher relay is on order.

[martyrg]

BTW, I have identified the Flasher relay (3 prongs) and the Headlight Dimmer relay (5 prongs). There is also a 2 prong device to the right of the Flasher and Dimmer relays. What is it?

[telford dorr]

Ultra-annoying key buzzer.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[martyrg]

OK, well, I plugged in the flasher relay and tested again with my test light, per telfor dorr's instructions (test light to the blue wire on the emergency flasher switch) and the test light started flashing and I could hear the relay changing state. I tried the turn signal switch and turn signals started working! Not sure what changed. I tried to plug in the relay in the wrong orientation, to check if I initially plugged it in incorrectly. It will only go in one way - the correct orientation.

I'll most likley change out the flasher relay when it arrives later this week, just incase the one I have now has an intermittent problem.

Thanks everyone for your help, MUCH appreciated!!

[telford dorr]

When probing things make things start working, it means you disturbed a failed connection, causing it to make contact again. One problem with German electrics is the use of base metals, like brass and copper, which are subject to oxidation and corrosion. The correct fix is to unplug, buff with a suitable wire wheel on a Dremel tool, and reassemble with a thin film of dielectric grease to inhibit future oxidation. All terminal connections should be shiny and bright to be reliable. 50 years takes it's toll...
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[martyrg]

That makes sense. I'll clean or replace all the connections.

BTW, I like the little meme with the snake. Took me a second to figure it out. Nerdy and funny at the same time.

[telford dorr]

It's from xkcd.com
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[martyrg]

I just got done replacing all the crimp connectors on the light switch and the 4 way flasher switch. I also cleaned the connecting spades on each switch. The turn signals are working solidly now! Thanks again everyone.

Now it's off to discover why the headlight dimmer relay isn't firing. You gotta love working on these old busses . . . and I do!

[telford dorr]

- Remove the headlight relay cover can; inspect.
- if rusty, replace
- otherwise, apply silicone spray to the toggle mechanism, and operate by hand.
- if it starts working correctly, reinstall can. You're done
-otherwise, replace relay.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[martyrg]

I pulled the dimmer relay. It has 5 prongs. Where it plugs in under the fuse panel only has 4 wires in the socket. Pin 30 is empty. That explains why the relay would not fire.

My Bentley manual shows the relay with pin S, Pin 56A, pin 56B, and pin 56; just 4 pins, no pin 30. Is there a way to make this 5 pin relay work? Jumpering pin 56 over to pin 30?

I just looked on line and couldn't find a 4 prong dimmer relay at Bus Depot, CIP-1, etc.

[martyrg]

Here is the relay with the pin layout.

[telford dorr]

That's the Euro style dimmer/flashing relay. Yes, it needs a 12 volt feed to pin 30 to work. You need a terminal with a retaining tab on it so the wire stays in the socket. Use a red 14 AWG wire from the terminal to a full-time 12 volt (typically unfused) source at the fuse block.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[martyrg]

That makes sense, I got that relay from Heritage Parts Center in England. To make it work, I took the spade connector from the buzzer socket and soldered a new wire on it. I then installed it in the pin 30 slot for the dimmer relay. I connected the other end of the wire to the pin 30 terminal on the head light switch, as it already had a second pin 30 terminal available. Everything is working as it should. I'm a happy boy!

Thanks again for all your help!!