Ignition Switch Troubleshooting Guidance Please - Stock '69 Bug

[OldSchoolVW's]

Symptoms:

Turn ignition key to "RUN" position. No GEN light, no OIL light.

Turn ignition key to "START" position. Nothing happens, still no GEN and OIL lights.

Turned the key all the way to "OFF" then repeated the above 5 or 6 times ... no change in symptoms.

Turned to "OFF" and left the key in that position for 15 - 30 seconds.

Turned key to "RUN" position and the GEN and OIL lights come on as they normally do. Then turned the key to "START" and the engine fires right up and idles fine. Took it for a quick test drive in the neighborhood and it drove great.

Turned it off and let it sit overnight. Went to start it this afternoon and the "GEN and "OIL" lights came on as they should and it starts up fine on the first try.


History:

The only modifications to the ignition wiring are the addition of an inline fuse for the coil wire and a hard start relay, both of which were installed around 4 years ago.

When I bought the car 4 years ago I'd periodically get a "no crank" when attempting to start (I don't recall if the GEN and OIL lights came on or not). Had no starting issues after adding the HSR.


Questions:

Is it most likely the ignition switch needs to be replaced?

I know the ignition switch gets power through the light switch, but would the light switch acting as a distribution point be a suspect as well? (It appears that the ignition feed wire is attached to the same terminal (30) on the light switch that the light switch uses for the feed wire from VR B+ ... so the ignition feed wire is not reliant on a connection within the light switch.)

Is there another component I should be looking at?

Wiring diagram here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_6869.jpg

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.
_________________
Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller

"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." Wernher von Braun

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[VW_Jimbo]

Why not use a volt meter to check for power to the switch. Red wire, 30 circuit. If there, then check the output wires, black (key in run position, 15 circuit), red w black tracer (starter feeder wire, 50 circuit). All should show around 12.6 vdc, in their respective positions.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Q-Dog]

[OldSchoolVW's]

Thanks guys!

The problem is intermittent, so if I've got good voltage to lighting switch 30, I guess I should wiggle the key while in each position to see if the output voltage varies.

Semi-related question ...
Wouldn't it be beneficial to put an inline fuse on the feed wire from VR B+ to lighting switch 30? I believe it is equivalent to a 10 gauge wire so capable of handling ~35 amps.

Since I'm going to be digging into the wiring anyway, maybe a good time to add a fused distribution block like this so the light switch doesn't have to do that job? Would also provide some additional fused terminals for future needs.

https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/product/atc-ato-f...ion-cover/

If I did this, any recommendations on where to locate it?
_________________
Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller

"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." Wernher von Braun

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[diamondblue1969]

If your problem is intermittent use the ohmmeter and check resistance
between contacts in the switch , see if it goes open or the resistance goes
all over the place . Disconnect the power to the switch first . Resistance
should be close to zero for a good connection.

[VW_Jimbo]

You can do anything you want to your car. That is your choice.

Regarding the fuse block. For me, it would be sacrilegious. I like VW engineering way too much. Simple, elegant, repairable (in the field) and functional. In my 40 years owning/working on these cars, I have never had a wire fail. I maintain my cars to a fault. I am an exception. When I worked at an independent VW repair shop, the abusive nature of the customers towards their cars would have clearly been a benefit! Those people would cut wires, then twist them together and maybe use scotch tape to insulate the horrible splice together. In this case a fuse is a MUST! But if you just maintain your vehicle and keep up on the visual inspections, I am certain all will be well.

There is a saying that applies here. “Don’t go fixing what ain’t broken!” And my personal favorite all time one, “Keep It Simple Stupid”. I live by both!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[heimlich]

The easiest way to check this is with a voltmeter. Jiggle it to make sure. Then follow the wire to the next piece you need to check. This same process works on checking the light switch. You can also check your turn signal switch the same way.
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[bsairhead]

[gt1953]

More than likely it is the ignition switch. My 68 went thru several as they were not German switch. Finally got one to function. A lil tricky to replace.
_________________
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Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[OldSchoolVW's]

[gt1953]

As far as a vendor to make the purchase...it is crap shoot. Just do not loose that tiny set screw.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[heimlich]

I bought one of those switches from a vendor about 5 years ago. I installed. I turned the key. I saw a puff of smoke.

I thought about rebuilding the one that is in there. Those earlier ones are made out of metal so once you bend the tabs out to take it apart it makes it more difficult to reclose it. If you are feeling adventurous you can do that. It might just need to be taken apart, inspected, and cleaned. There are usually tiny springs inside so watch out. There are some threads on how to rebuild the later ones from 71. They might be the same inside but 71 is plastic on the outside and can be easily opened. I think the metal switches are better but they are hard to reclose.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)

[Rob Combs]

Our ignition switches carry quite a heavy burden, at least compared to the way more modern cars are wired. The ignition switch shoulders the electrical needs of almost the whole car.

If you want a high-quality, heimlich is your guy. The ones you find on Amazon are all over the place and a crapshoot, at least in the opinions of some of our users who've tried them and had them fail within a few days.

There's a way to make that ignition switch carry far less burden than VW originally intended, and that's to wire it like a modern car - meaning put a relay onto each power-out circuit on the ignition switch. You already have one in place - the "hard start" relay - which enables the circuit 50/starter solenoid leg of the switch, and all of the wiring that runs from the switch to the starter, to do virtually no work. The only current it has to carry is the current required to energize the relay coil, which is well under half an ampere (~300mA last one I checked).

This logic can be extended to every circuit the ignition switch powers, and it'll never work another day in the car's life. All it takes is another one or two of those relay kits, depending on your ignition switch configuration (I can't remember how a `69 is wired; mine's a 71 and is a little different).

[ashman40]

[heimlich]

[Cusser]

[heimlich]

[OldSchoolVW's]

Geez, you guys sure know how to cheer me up.

Well, after a bit of excavation, I gained access to the lighting switch.

The feed wire from the VR B+ showed 12.4 volts at terminal 30.

With the ignition switch in the RUN position, the wire from ignition switch 15 showed 12.3 volts at the fuse box terminal.

With the key in the START position, there is 11.7 volts at the hard start relay terminal 85.

The GEN and OIL lights come on with the key in the RUN position.

I wiggled the daylights out of the key during the above checks and the voltage didn't drop more than .1 volt.

So whatever caused the symptoms in my original post didn't show itself. At least it gave me the opportunity to clean the terminals and clean and heat shrink the connectors.

Driving until I experience more reliable failure isn't the best plan ... just not keen on doing roadside electrical troubleshooting and repair. Since the available after market switches are of such poor quality, my current thinking is to disconnect the ignition switch and wire in a flush mount generic switch under the dash. The old switch could act as a decoy and steering wheel lock. Any generic switch would be loads easier to replace than the column switch if it failed.

Be glad to hear your thoughts about this idea.
_________________
Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller

"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." Wernher von Braun

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[baldessariclan]

[Cusser]