Stock Spring Replacements

[candyman]

[Christopher Schimke]

[Schuylersister]

[tjet]

Have you considered new replacement Carat springs? I say this because you are height restricted. I installed a used set in my '85 tintop & liked them a lot, but I'm not sure if they are ok to use in a heavier Westy.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2542952

[Schuylersister]

[Christopher Schimke]

[jimf909]

[paulcolorado21]

Hey all I thought this was a good place to ask about some spring/suspension issues

So I have the Van Cafe lifting springs but on the driver side the spring looks over compressed and actually isnt seated in the top as you can see the spring pad kinda off kilter in there. I originally thought a new shock would boost it up and replaced that but learned there is something else going on. I am in Baja at the moment but have a friend coming down so I could order two new 1.5" lift springs but also curious if just the spring pad will sure things up.

Below is a picture of the passenger side and how it should look and then the driver side showing how the spring is sitting over compressed and then also a picture of the top of the spring not seater correctly into the upper control arm.

this is passenger side and seems to be fine

this is the problem driver side compressed at rest

this is photo that shows the top and how its seated above

this is the spring bad kinda off kilter not seated correctly

Please let me know how to proceed as I have a time crunch on ordering parts for my friend to bring down but also dont want to waste money on things I dont need

[MarkWard]

When you’ve had the front springs out, I believe the manual recommends using electrical tape in a few spots to hold the upper perch in position during assembly.

I can’t comment more than that, but your swaybar link bushings look pretty worn.

[Christopher Schimke]

Your camera angle is looking sides of the spring. On the passenger side (right side of the vehicle), you need to be looking at the spring from the back side and looking toward the front of the vehicle in order to see the coil windings from the same perspective. If you do that, I think you will see that the coil windings will look nearly identical.

It's hard to tell from the photos, but it does look like the upper rubber isolator is cocked in there crooked.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at contact@t3technique.com

[paulcolorado21]

Hey I actually didnt touch the springs I just put a new shock on that side hoping that was the problem and then when I had the wheel off and everything that is when I noticed the spring looking wonky in there.

I guess the biggest question is the compression from it not being seated correctly or is it a worn out spring? These are about 5 year old aftermarket 1.5 inch higher springs I believer from the Van Cafe ones.

I added the sway bar bushings to the repair list those have been glaring at me for a while

What about upper control arm bushings and bearings if we decide the springs are good just out of place?

Obviously at least one new spring pad rubber

Here is a photo of the driver (problem side)

Here is the passenger (good or better side)

[MarkWard]

In general, a shock is not going to change ride height. It is a spring dampener to control spring oscillations. A gas charged shock does add maybe 50 pounds of compression rate, but in pairs isn’t noticeable in ride height.

The ride height is determined by the spring and the spring pads top or bottom. Trouble can occur when the tails of the springs end in different end spots. This can affect how the spring seats. The pads etc are built around original springs and there are many folks successfully running aftermarket springs. Like anything, there are probably some that are better than others.

Our 82 camper has original springs over 40 years old. No issues I could identify to cause me to do something else. Christopher from T3 is who I’d have conversations with if I wanted to replace springs and shocks.

[paulcolorado21]

Thanks Mark, but in the picture do you see something funny of how the spring is orientated that would cause it to sit more compressed like it is in the picture?

[MarkWard]

My phone just isn’t clear enough. The last photo shows the bottom spring end is not against the stop. I understand you are traveling and likely taking the springs out to compare them is not practical nor would I suggest you attempt that without a spring compressor, a safe place to work, and all the tools you’d need.

And you mentioned a front suspension rebuild. I would do it all at once. You could order in advance from T3 what he recommends or take it completely apart and see what you need.

Less quality springs can sag over time and decrease ride height, but to really compare you’d need them on a bench.

[Christopher Schimke]

Ideally, you should simply measure your ride heights at all four corners (with the van on flat ground, measured from the center of the hub to the fender lip). All four corners will likely be a bit different (that's common), but it will give us an indicator of what we're dealing with in terms of ride heights.

As Mark said, springs do generally sag over time, but that in itself does not indicate a problem.

Also, as Mark said, the right side spring should ideally be rotated so that the end of the open coil is right near the notch in the control arm.

And I agree with Mark that attempting to install new springs while "on the road" may not be wise, or even necessary.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at contact@t3technique.com

[paulcolorado21]

Just measured from center hub to fender around the van and it was

Passenger Front 17.25 in
Driver Front 16.25 in.
Driver Rear 17.5 in
Passenger Rear 17.75 in

[MarkWard]

If I were traveling, I wouldn’t sweat the difference. It’s not worth worrying about. Keep an eye on it if you want.

[paulcolorado21]

Im actually living down here and in a good spot to get things fixed its just I have this opportunity to have a friend bring good parts down but just not sure what I should spend money on to tighten this suspension up. Could it be just reseating it properly with a fresh rubber pad? I'll even use a mechanic for this one as its very reasonable and I have someone good but getting good parts is the challenge...

[MarkWard]

The only way to really know is to start by removing the springs. Their overall condition visually is not something I’d be trying to get more life out of. As I said earlier, my 40 year old stock springs are still doing fine. If the upper perch has shifted and has been carrying the weight of the van, it’s likely permanently deformed. So at a minimum a good set of used stock springs and upper perches would be a good start. Otherwise go all new and replace all the wear bushings with new. Basically rebuild the front end. Again T3 can provide what you need including new hardware. He even posted a DIY front alignment thread for getting everything adjusted close to spec.

I’ve installed taller aftermarket springs for other owners and it’s one of my least favorite jobs. There is a lot of stored energy in a compressed spring and if something slips, you can get hurt. Good luck with your project.

[Christopher Schimke]

You can see from the image below that the driver's side front spring has lost load height (sagged). Notice the height discrepancy between the coils. This lines up with your ride height discrepancies. If I were in your shoes, I would simply install a 0.75" spring shim on the driver's side front and call it a day. It's cheaper than replacing all of the springs, and since that spring still has the same rate (stiffness) as it did when new, it's still a viable part. You would need to take the driver's side front apart to fix the rubber isolator issue anyway, so tossing in a spring shim is a piece of cake at that point.

_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at contact@t3technique.com