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talljordan
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Joined: January 10, 2012
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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 Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 11:01 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch ON = No RTurn Signal or Emer_Flashers |
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Yes, thats okay. Youll be able to see if the small bulb is flashing. The small bulb and the large bulb are wired together but operate independently.
On the rears, the turn signal is a totally separate bulb, and the brake/parking are the same bulb. Should be no issue there.
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
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Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 10:36 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch ON = No RTurn Signal or Emer_Flashers |
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| vamram wrote: |
Per the '73 manual, #1-2 are the left and right parking lights and signals (note typo in the text for 1 & 2).
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I read the fuse descriptions for #1 and #2 three times before I saw the extra "s". Good catch! 
I would also point out that the license plate lamp has always been on the same circuit as the right rear tail light and is not by itself on fuse #7 as suggested above. The Owner's Manual is wrong. 
| vamram wrote: |
Here's what happened when I started pulling fuses:
A) #1 OUT, Flasher switch ON: all four corners flash as well as the driver side taillight; passenger side taillight is OFF.
B) #2 OUT, 1 IN, Flasher ON: same exact result as test A |
First, we need to confirm the #1 and #2 fuses support the lights they say they do. Some Beetles put ALL the parking lights on fuse #1 and ONLY the left rear parking light on fuse #2. Other years split the load evenly with left-side parking lights on fuse #1 and right-side +license plate light on fuse #2.
It should be easy enough to do... turn the parking lights ON (no turn signals or E-Flasher). Remove fuse #1 and see which lights go out. Reinstall #1 and remove #2 and check again.
Interestingly, comparing the '73 wiring diagram above and the fuse box diagram above... they don't match. Fuse #2 in the wiring diagram only powers the left rear parking light! This is why you need to confirm which lights are powered by which fuses. My guess from your other descriptions is that ONLY the left rear tail light will be on fuse #2 and all other parking lights (and license plate) are powered from fuse #1.
While you are looking... confirm the INPUT side of fuses #1 & #2 have a single grey wire connected to them coming from the headlight switch (#5 . The OUTPUT side of the fuse will have 2 male terminals while the INPUT side will have a single male terminal each or a brass bridge linking the INPUT side and a single grey wire can power both fuses. Make sure the INPUT and OUTPUT sides are not mixed up. Maybe post a pic?
| vamram wrote: |
| C) #1 & 2 fuses both removed, Flasher ON: headlights and parking lights don't work; right front turn signal, rear turn signals and left taillight flash; driver front turn signal does *not* flash when engaging the right turn signal; right taillight does *not* come on. |
We may have bigger wiring problems... in '73 the headlights were powered from the black/yellow (X) wire coming off the ignition switch. While the parking lights were powered by a red (30 wire coming off the fuse box. While they both ran thru the headlight switch, from '71-later VW split the parking and headlight circuits inside the headlight switch.
Were you running the above test with the ignition switch ON or OFF? I thought you might be running your tests with the ignition switch OFF, which would prevent the headlights from working. But you mentioned testing the turn signals which only work with the ignition switch ON?! Were you using the turn signals (which require the ignition to be ON) or the E-Flashers which can be turned ON with the ignition switch OFF??
Note, that your right rear tail light was NOT flashing when you removed the #1 and #2 fuses suggests the cause of the parking lights flashing at the same time as the turn signals is coming from one of the light assemblies powered by fuse #1. If your fuse box is wired according to the wiring diagram this could be the left rear tail light or either of the front parking lights. If your fuses are wired as the fuse box wiring suggests then the problem is limited to just the left side lights are the source.
You seem to be using the E-Flashers to test all four corner turn signal lamps at the same time. This makes troubleshooting harder because it applies power to all four corner lamps and doesn't isolate the source of the problem to the left side or right side only.
Here's a test for you to conduct:
Disconnect the distributor #1 (-) wire from the ignition coil as we will be leaving the ignition switch ON for a while.
Ignition switch ON. Parking lights OFF.
Turn signal to Left turn. I'm assuming both rear parking lights will also be flashing.
Go to the engine compartment and find the tail light wiring junction behind the left side tar paper. Find the grey or white parking light wire coming out of the tail light wiring harness and disconnect it from the junction. The left rear parking light should stop flashing. Does the turn signal also stop flashing? Do the other parking lights stop flashing? If they do, this suggests this side turn signal bulb is grounding thru this tail light because the light assembly has a weak/bad ground.
Ground this grey tail light wire to a ground point. Does the parking light start flashing again? Do all the parking lights start flashing?
Reconnect the grey wire and repeat the test for the front left light assembly.
Switch to the right turn signal and repeat for rear/front on that side.
By using the turn signal switch instead of the E-Flasher you should be able to isolate if the problem with the turn signals powering the parking lights is coming from the left side or the right side of the car. Then you can use the above test to isolate if it is the front or rear that is the source. When you disconnect the parking light wire that is the source of the problem, everything works as normal. Then you can tear that light assembly apart and see what is wrong.
BTW, have you confirmed that your are running the correct dual-filament bulbs in the front light assemblies? And that the bulbs are installed correctly so that each bottom contact is only in contact with a single terminal inside the socket. For example, if you twisted the bulb too far/too little the contact on the bottom of the bulb could bridge between the two contact tabs in the socket and cause the problem we are troubleshooting.
My buddy and I were trying to figure out WHY his tail lights weren't working as expected. We found 2 bulbs that were the wrong bulb for the socket. A single filament bulb was installed in a dual-filament socket. You would think it should not fit as the side bayonet prongs should prevent the bulbs from being locked into place. You would be surprised what the PO can do! 
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
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vamram 
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch - No RTurn Signal or Flashers: FIXED |
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Semi FIXED!!! Turn signals work work normally now IF the parking/headlights are not turned on. Flashers work normally now with the parking lights/headlights on. But right turn signal intermittently will not work.
Fuse panel:
Driver side rear taillight assembly wiring multi-connector:
The culprit was at least partly the ground connection at the base of the left engine bay. It was filthy w/oily grime - I ran for the last 2 years or more w/out side firewall tarboards, so the wiring was exposed to oil mist and other atmospheric crap.
now my grounds are all clean.
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vamram
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch - No RTurn Signal or Flashers: NOT ED |
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Update - went on a 20 mile drive around town, lights on, many many turns. Worked Everytime. Not sure why it didn't work the first couple of tries after pulling out of the driveway. We'll see how it does tomorrow on the way to the Bug Invasion show in VA.
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16579
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch - No RTurn Signal or Flashers: FIXED |
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| vamram wrote: |
| Semi FIXED!!! Turn signals work work normally now IF the parking/headlights are not turned on. Flashers work normally now with the parking lights/headlights on. But right turn signal intermittently will not work. |
Congrats troubleshooting.
So the turn signals aren’t working if you drive at night with the parking lights ON? That still sounds like your turn signals aren’t working lamps are grounding thru the parking lights?
If there is a E-Flashers work consistently but the right turn signal does not, it sounds like a problem in the turn signal switch itself. You may want to disconnect the L and R wires coming out of the turn signal switch and test the continuity/resistance thru the switch.
| vamram wrote: |
Fuse panel:
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I’m afraid those pics don’t show much.
I can see the grey/red wire that powers the right rear+license plate lamps. I can see that the grey/black wire for the left rear parking lights connects to fuse #1 at the outer edge of the fuse box. I cannot make out if the grey wires running to the front two parking lights are connected to the same side of the #2(?) fuse. I also cannot see if the grey wires from the headlight switch connects to the INPUT side of the fuse?
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
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vamram
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch - No RTurn Signal or Flashers: NOT ED |
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Ashman, apologies for the confusion of my last reply. Typing on the phone while pulled over is not the best practice and I failed to fully clean up my original post.
Everything actually worked fine after the initial failure pulling out of the neighborhood, on a 20-mile ride around the city, some highway. Tomorrow I'm putting it to the test again on a club cruise to a show further south of here.
Hard to take better pictures with the phone. I'll see if I can improve on them tomorrow.
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vamram
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2025 5:37 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch - No RTurn Signal or Flashers: NOT ED |
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Put about 120 miles on the car yesterday going to the Bug Invasion at Summerduck in VA. I did the whole trip with headlights and/or parking lights on, thru city, highway and country roads. Aside from it being a generally nice tour, the turn signals worked perfectly, not even one failure.
I guess the problem is resolved (until the next time ..  ).
Gracias a todos!
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to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
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'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
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Last edited by vamram on Mon May 26, 2025 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ashman40
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2025 9:55 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch - No RTurn Signal or Flashers: NOT ED |
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Great! I hope you had a great time at the Bug Invasion.
Grounding problems really suck because of the unpredictable way they show up. 
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
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vamram
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:18 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super Headlight Switch - No RTurn Signal or Flashers: NOT ED |
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Welp, problem came back today. Not 100% the same, but turning on the parking/HLs causes the right side parking and turn signal bulbs/filaments to both light up front and rear and the blinker and flashers won't work. Sigh.... 
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"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7502
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2025 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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When I was putting my 73 together after paint I had similar issues. I went through each light one by one with a multimeter. I found that hooking up circuits caused other circuits to be powered.
It's really a step by step process with a multimeter and you can solve all of these problems. Just start with one light. Put the multimeter on the power line and see if you have 12V. Check the ground to see if it has 12v which is shouldn't. If you don't have power to the power line you follow it up to the fuse block and see if the wire has power. Once you have power then you check for a solid ground. On the rear lights I had to run a separate ground. I just ran that to the bolt/screw that held the fixture to the fender.
What also can happen is a power wire on one circuit can back feed into another circuit and cause similar issues.
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vamram
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 9:50 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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To keep this thread updated, I ran a separate ground wire from one of the left rear assembly's mounting stud to one of the bumper mounting bolts. Blinkers worked normally for about 5 minutes, then crapped out on the highway; they worked occasionally during the 30 minute drive, but ended w/same ol' problem.
Today I'll put new extra ground wires on the rear right assembly, and disconnect and check/clean all of the rear light powered wires as well.
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Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
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talljordan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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This still sounds like loose bulbs to me.
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vamram
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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Could be. But the metal bulb holders of all 4 corners are in great shape. I'm suspicious of the front 2-fillament bulb. But, some progress today.
- added a separate ground wire for the right rear lights
- went through every connection on the firewall side of the rear assemblies; I confirmed that all of them are clean and tight.
- I did clean up and replace the 3 wire ends of the the 3-wire junction coming from the nose cone of the transmission. I found that 2 of them were dirty at the female spade end with some of the copper wire exposed, and the single exit wire going to the coil+ had small bare spot where a zip tie had cut into the cladding. Fixed all that.
Afterwards I went in the daily 20-mile mixed city/highway loop I like to do, constantly test even when not actually turning right. This time it worked correctly 9/10 times. A couple of times the speedo flasher indicator would flicker and then the right signal would stop working. A couple of clicks back and forth and it would start again. Not sure what this means.
Oh and I noticed that the flasher switch bulb is dimly lit with the parking/headlights on. I'm thinking this is normal, but not sure since I've never really paid attention to it before all this.
Just to be consistent, tomorrow I'll add separate grounds to the front assemblies and test again.
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
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sb001
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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Vamram, there is a double connector in your trunk that the wires together for both the front right parking light bulb filament and the front right turn signal bulb filament pass through (easier to illustrate on the 1972 wiring diagram here, circled in red):
Is it possible that somehow those two wires are rubbing together intermittently inside that connector? Or a strand from one wire is touching the other at that connector? Just spitballing, but if this is the case, when you turn the headlights on, power flowing through the right front parking light wire may be crossing over to the right front turn signal wire as well, illuminating both filaments inside that common bulb as you are describing, AND it would also backfeed back through to the connection point where the front and rear turn signal wires meet, thereby also lighting up the rear turn signal light as well.
You could easily test by unplugging just the parking light input wire from that connector and then see if everything else works normally.
Just a thought...
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talljordan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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| vamram wrote: |
Oh and I noticed that the flasher switch bulb is dimly lit with the parking/headlights on. I'm thinking this is normal, but not sure since I've never really paid attention to it before all this.
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This is not normal. There is some kind of short somewhere
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vamram
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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| talljordan wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
Oh and I noticed that the flasher switch bulb is dimly lit with the parking/headlights on. I'm thinking this is normal, but not sure since I've never really paid attention to it before all this.
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This is not normal. There is some kind of short somewhere |
The cover broke off at some point today. Here it is dimly lit w/the parking lights on.
SB, Tomorrow I'll go thru the junctions on the front wiring and report back what I find.
_________________
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“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
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vamram
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 8:52 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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SB, the junctions were good and clean. They're the four-wire ones that are split, so one pair can't contact the other. However, my driver-side wiring may have been an issue. I had remnants of my old headlight ring signal and driving lights wiring still in place, even though they're cut back in the head light bucket.
An ugly mess. I took it apart, eliminated the "retired" wires, and fixed this issue - Cuts in the cladding of the signal and parking light wires.
Everything works fine sitting and parked. We'll see on this afternoon's drive if there's any improvement. I did notice that the flasher switch bulb still lights up very dimly when I turn on the parking lights, car off. Jordan says this is a short. Can anyone else confirm this? My '74 is non-op at the moment so I can't compare to this car.
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“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
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heimlich
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 8:55 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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If a light turns on when it is supposed to be off you have a cross contaminant in the wiring. One wire is linked up to another wrongly. This puts power into a circuit that shouldn't have it.
You can try to isolate it using the fuse block. Just pull the fuse for the other circuits. When you see the light go off you found the one powering it.
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vamram
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:32 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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Heimlich - I just tried this. The flasher is on the output side of fuse #8. It works as expected - flashes when I turn it on, dies when I pull #8. However, w/the HL switch ON, flashers OFF, the flasher switch stays dimly lit, EVEN if I remove ALL 12 fuses! So, i'm guessing the HL switch is getting power from the input side of one of the fuses and is daisy-chained to the flasher...?
Just a wild guess. I've never learned to read those '73+ wiring diagrams.
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Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
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'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
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heimlich
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:38 am Post subject: Re: '73 Super HL Switch ON, No RTurn Signal or Flashers |
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You don't need the wiring diagrams. It helps for a little reference but my car was so modified that I just had to trace everything.
What does your flasher switch do? If it does nothing except indicate the flashers are on you might just unplug it. Just label the wires when you do. You can also put a meter on the ground coming out of that to see if it is live.
I have a 56 that the high beam indicator on the speedometer stays on no matter what. When I press the floor button to switch it and the lights go off. I just leave it alone. It works.
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