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What's worse? Engine work or body work?
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jinx758
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Yes, do verify VIN under back seat to title.

I've owned my '71 Standard for 10+ years. It has had the front replaced from half the front wheel well forward. I have a '72&up steering wheel. There's a slight gap under passenger frunk lid. It was done fairly well cuz I didn't notice till 2018 or so.
I don't care.
My chassis VIN matches the title.
I have a running, driving, stopping ACVW.
I'd rather look like poo but drive back home than be pretty on the side of the road.

In the driving video the steering wheel is cocked to one side but it does not pop out of gear. Strike one - plus one.
I hope the OG metal didn't get so hot that the molecular structure shifted. I think it would become brittle. Perhaps a few parts may thunk instead of ping if tested.

Ultimately up to you, we can only post advice or warnings

Good luck ... stay safe

jinx
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viiking
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 1:33 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Bobs67vwagen wrote:
Just for your general knowledge here are some changes that have been made to that 68 bug
1) the steering wheel is from a later bug probably 72 or newer
2) the decklid is from a later bug, 68 had no vents on the lid
3) the air cleaner looks different to me
I am pointing this out to you in case you are looking for a stock original car. The body looks good from the outside. Prepping, priming, and painting should be done to the fire damage soon. That stuff will rust deeply quickly. I would want to know about the condition of the heater channels and floor pan, and the support panel below and behind the front suspension beam. These are all common rust areas on these cars. Hope this helps Bob


And in addition:

1. The speedo is not a 68. It's a later one. 68 had a 1 year only speedo which has the same font as the earlier VW's but with the integral fuel level.
2. Distributor on 68 was vac advance - no biggie if it is running well but engine probably isn't original. 68's had H5 prefixes in the US afaik.
3. Heater channels are correct for the 68. Shark gill heater outlets at the footwell not at the seat, so could well be the originals. Needs to inspect the A and B pillar attachments for rust. The LHS A pillar does look pretty good.
4. Window winders are definitely correct. The right hand side one has lost the knob, but that's exactly what a 68 look like when the knob comes off.
5. Hood release pull is the one-year only 68 "springy" knob.
6. Dimple in the quarter panel at the fuel filler door. If it does not have any locking mechanism (via a cable in the glovebox) then it is most likely a 68.
7.You can't see it on the photos and videos but the 68 would have come with the Z bar on the rear axle. Many people remove them, foolishly.
8. Given that the engine is probably not original, the LHS fan shroud outlet is different. Been modified, or is it from another model engine?
9. The jacking points look solid. Usually a really rusty heater channel sees the jacking point being deformed up into the heater channel.

I'd say it is a definite 68 but with later model parts added. Given the photos you have I think it's pretty solid but still needs some further inspection.

If the pans are solid and the heater channels are too, and the rear luggage compartment is rust free, then I think you are fair way into a good car. The engine seems to run ok. Didn't see smoke and didn't hear too many funny noises.

I'd go for it. The paint whilst not great can be made to look reasonable.

I tried to determine the colour. The 68 came with Royal Red. A deeper red colour. But yours almost looks like Poppy Red particularly the internal shots which was a Convertible colour only. Maybe others can comment on it better than I can. Again not important, but it may be if you ever wanted to paint it again.
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bugger-off
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

The '68 is too Frankenstein for me. What other weird shit will you find down the road that is missing or incorrect?

I'm looking at the photo of the engine so riddle me this: If the '68 was damaged by an engine fire, why in holy hell would anyone STILL place the fuel filter on the wrong side of the firewall?? I mean, it's right next to the distributor!! Someone didn't learn an important lesson.

I still say 'keep looking'. Find something that is clean and isn't all piecemealed together. I don't think there's any such thing as an unmolested bug but you should be able to find something less Frankensteined.

Spend more now on a bug instead of on parts in the near future for shit that needs to be fixed or replaced. Too many red flags.
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CoastalBug
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

bugger-off wrote:


I'm looking at the photo of the engine so riddle me this: If the '68 was damaged by an engine fire, why in holy hell would anyone STILL place the fuel filter on the wrong side of the firewall?? I mean, it's right next to the distributor!! Someone didn't learn an important lesson.


The seller bought the car from the previous owner after the fire. Perhaps he’s not enough of a VW guy to know that it needs to go in a different place? However, that’s going to be one of the first things I rectify after I pick it up.
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Bobs67vwagen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Keep in mind that all of these comments and info are to try to keep your mind open to things that may be overlooked when buyers "fever" takes over. We have all been there at one time or another. The final decision is yours and will be yours to live with good or bad. If you decide to wait for a different car, try to narrow down what years you like the best and what years you do not like. There is plenty of info to help you on this site through the search button. There are still enough on these cars around to find a mostly original car for a bit more money. Bob
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bugger-off
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

CoastalBug wrote:
]
The seller bought the car from the previous owner after the fire. Perhaps he’s not enough of a VW guy to know that it needs to go in a different place? However, that’s going to be one of the first things I rectify after I pick it up.


So do you think he bought it just to flip it? One more red flag.

Don't look for reasons to buy it, rather look at all the shortcomings. I have been guilty in the past for looking at why I should buy a vehicle and not why I shouldn't. It's easy to let emotions take over.

Go with your gut feeling.
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Schepp
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

There's no logical reason someone would swap out the entire steering system of an older beetle for a newer year model unless it was in an accident and that's all they could find to fix it.

If the car runs decent, shifts smoothly and drives straight. If all your looking for is a daily driver, not an original car. Something to fix up and drive. Then for 3k I don't see a reason not to buy it. Even with all the wrong parts on it.

After 50+ years these cars are hardly original anymore. People often swapped out parts from various years just to get them back on the road. People often forget that and knit pick the details. If a car was being sold for high dollar, sure details matter. For this car they don't but it does provide some history of what the car has been through. Hats off to the folks who put in the effort to keep it on the road vs send it to the crusher.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

CoastalBug wrote:
Here are more photos from the listing. The rust on the drivers side rear was from a small engine fire. It’s surface rust only. The only other place of concern is a silver dollar sized hole in the battery compartment.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Both fat heater hoses look to be missing, which means this engine is burning itself up whenever its being run, from loss of cooling air.

FYI, judging from the side exit for the left-hand heater hose, this engine had an air conditioning compressor mounted on it. This might explain the clipped air cleaner, too.

Here is a similar engine with the A/C still there (pic found here on the samba):
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Schepp wrote:
If the car runs decent, shifts smoothly and drives straight. If all your looking for is a daily driver, not an original car. Something to fix up and drive. Then for 3k I don't see a reason not to buy it. Even with all the wrong parts on it.

After 50+ years these cars are hardly original anymore. People often swapped out parts from various years just to get them back on the road. People often forget that and knit pick the details. If a car was being sold for high dollar, sure details matter. For this car they don't but it does provide some history of what the car has been through. Hats off to the folks who put in the effort to keep it on the road vs send it to the crusher.


Valid points. However, since this is the OPs first bug, he needs to know that when you purchase a bug that is cobbled together from various years, it makes it more difficult (frustrating) to determine what replacement parts to order when working on the car. You can't simply assume that parts compatible with a '68 will be correct ... and he may find himself ordering a part several times before getting the correct one for his situation. Also, while the Bentley manual is a terrific and important resource for first time owners, it becomes less helpful the farther the car has strayed from original parts.

For a first ACVW purchase, acquiring one that is as close to correct-for-year as possible will likely yield a more positive ownership experience.
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Bobs67vwagen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Agree 100 percent with oldschoolvws comments. All of these items were pointed out to help a first time buyer of an old vw understand more fully what he is buying. Starting off knowing some changes made to the car might give the buyer some knowledge which might be used to try and negotiate a better deal. Growing up on Long Island there was a clothing retailer whose sales slogan was "an educated consumer is our best customer". I think this applies here as it never hurts to gain additional knowledge in any endeavor.
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CoastalBug
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Schepp wrote:


If the car runs decent, shifts smoothly and drives straight. If all your looking for is a daily driver, not an original car. Something to fix up and drive. Then for 3k I don't see a reason not to buy it. Even with all the wrong parts on it.

After 50+ years these cars are hardly original anymore. People often swapped out parts from various years just to get them back on the road. People often forget that and knit pick the details. If a car was being sold for high dollar, sure details matter. For this car they don't but it does provide some history of what the car has been through. Hats off to the folks who put in the effort to keep it on the road vs send it to the crusher.



That’s really all I want. Some thing fun, vintage, and unique to get me around our small town and to/from work.
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Buggeee
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

CoastalBug wrote:
Bobs67vwagen wrote:
Just for your general knowledge here are some changes that have been made to that 68 bug


Thanks Bob. I knew a few things weren’t original, like the steering wheel. I did not know about the others. Here is what the underside looks like.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If the title matches the VIN on the tunnel under the back seat I would buy this car for 3,500 all day, every day, seven days a week.

I've got the fever!!!

Enjoy the journey!
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Buggeee
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Also, my plans for this bug, which I have already imaginarily purchased in my mind, is to clean and clear the paint exactly as it is - that burn scar is a cool part of the history of a fire-engine red Texas bug.

You don't see bugs like this in Ohio. If it was up here in Ohio my wife would be picking out another dog already, which is how the scales get balanced in my world.

I really like the color and the patina on this one.

P.S. the rear apron looks to have bondo filler from the picture, but that wouldn't stop me. The pans, just look at those pans. Very Happy
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CoastalBug
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Buggeee wrote:
Also, my plans for this bug, which I have already imaginarily purchased in my mind, is to clean and clear the paint exactly as it is - that burn scar is a cool part of the history of a fire-engine red Texas bug.



My plan is to lightly sand the paint, and get the surface rust off, and then use something like Poppy’s Patina to clear coat it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

OldSchoolVW's wrote:


If it is a '68, the VIN should start with 118.

BTW, if the VIN plate behind the spare is missing, that's almost a guarantee that the front apron has been replaced..


118287*** Is the VIN and everything match’s according to the seller.
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Schepp
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

I couldn't agree more on pointing out the details to a first time buyer. The more he knows the better. Its also a good bargaining chip.

As a first time owner myself, I researched a ton before even going to look at cars in person. What to look for etc. It paid off in finding a good starting car for my build.

Now that the guy has this new knowledge he can make his own choice.

Every potential new VW buyer needs to know right off the bat that the majority of these cars are held together with parts from various years. That's a big factor in why there are so many still on the road.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Yes. My earlier post alerting the OP to the 68 differences were not intended to criticise but to point out what may or may not be original.

As others have said it can be a pitfall for new owners to buy parts for Beetles based solely on appearances or what may be advertised. Sometimes these "errors" can be perfectly legitimate other times perhaps not so.

Caveat emptor.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

CoastalBug wrote:
OldSchoolVW's wrote:


If it is a '68, the VIN should start with 118.

BTW, if the VIN plate behind the spare is missing, that's almost a guarantee that the front apron has been replaced..


118287*** Is the VIN and everything match’s according to the seller.

Matching paint glove box and speedometer surrounds, and seat backs are consistent with 1968.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

Welp, I did it. Heading home with her now. The lack of rust on this car is AMAZING! The only area of concern is a silver dollar sized hole in the battery tray, otherwise you can pound on any part of the car without a speck of rust falling off. I have never ridden in one before but MAN driving it was SOOOOO fun!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: What's worse? Engine work or body work? Reply with quote

CoastalBug wrote:
Welp, I did it. Heading home with her now. The lack of rust on this car is AMAZING! The only area of concern is a silver dollar sized hole in the battery tray, otherwise you can pound on any part of the car without a speck of rust falling off. I have never ridden in one before but MAN driving it was SOOOOO fun!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Applause Score, keep us updated.
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