Horn honks at key turn

[Phydous]

Question for you electrical gurus (Ashman40, are you out there?)

I've had a perpetually leaky gas tank. (There had been a hole cut in the top for an after market fuel line which I no longer use.) Anyway, long story short, I bought a new tank to replace it. I removed the old tank and while it was out I decided to replace the steering coupler. Once everything was back installed, new tank and all, I went to start the car and when I turned on the key the horn stared blaring. Ugh.

So I've done some research and I *think* that I may have broken the steering column bearing kit so that it is constantly grounded, causing the horn to honk.

Steering Column Bearing With Shells:

https://airheadparts.com/vw-part/steering-column-bearing-111-998-559/

I hate to order parts and take things apart if not needed so I wonder if you have any thoughts?

I unplugged the horn so I can still drive my car but I need to fix it...

Thanks for your help!

[baldessariclan]

Have you read through this thread yet? (ref. link below). Good info for helping to understand how the horn system works in late model Beetles:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1017538
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver

baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt...

[Cusser]

This may have NOTHING to do with your situation:

I had to replace the turn signal 2 weeks ago in my 1970. Yesterday I drove it into town and several times the horn blew on turns. So in the hardware store parking lot I simply loosened the horn ring screws, and then it was fine.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Phydous]

[Phydous]

[baldessariclan]

[2002sportside]

Recheck the coupler. I can't recall what it is, but make sure the bolts/washers are not grounding the horn out.
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1973 Volkswagen Beetle never ending project

[baldessariclan]

I’ve heard of some modern aftermarket couplers actually being electrically conductive, which would definitely cause the sort of problem you’re describing if you’ve got a 1968-1970 style horn setup. Not an issue for the 1971 and later horn configuration, however.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver

baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt...

[ashman40]

You didn't identify the model year of your car. I'm guessing it is your '69 Baja Beetle?

Between the '68 and '70 model years VW used the steering shaft and steering wheel as part of the horn (-) circuit. The horn button (horn ring) was connected to the ground wire running inside the steering shaft. This wire was connected to the steering box nut/bolt on the coupler ring that insulated the steering shaft from the steering box from both vibration and flex as well as electrically isolating the two parts. The horn button is suspended over the steering wheel keeping them electrically separated. When you pressed on the horn button you ground the steering wheel and steering shaft. This grounds the horn (-) circuit which sounds the horn.

So, you need to determine if your horn (-) circuit between the horn and the horn button is grounded and WHERE it is being grounded.

Disconnect the horn (-) wire at the horn. If you disconnect the two wires at the horn and turn the ignition ON the horn (-) wire is the one that does not have 12v+ at the end of the loose wire. Check if the horn (-) wire is grounded.
If it is grounded, move to the horn button/ring. Remove it and disconnect the wire coming out of the center of the steering shaft. Retest if the horn (-) wire is still grounded. If it is grounded, you have a short between the horn terminal and the horn button. If it is no longer grounded, you have a short between the horn button and the steering coupler.
Between the horn (-) terminal and the horn button there are a few connections:

Connection between the horn (-) wire and the brown wire coming off the upper steering shaft bearing mounted in the steering column. This is the plastic housed bearing (plastic to insulate the bearing from the steering column housing it is mounted in) at the upper end of the steering shaft. The brown wire should come out the bottom of the steering column housing and pass thru the firewall into the space near the fuse box. Trace the two wires coming from the horn. One will run to the fuse box, the other connects to the upper bearing.
The inside of the upper bearing has brass fingers that make contact with the steering shaft. With the bearing wire disconnected and the steering wheel removed, test the shaft itself for continuity to ground. If it is grounded it is making contact with the body somewhere, or as baldessariclan hinted, the insulating ring may be conducting current and grounding the shaft to the steering box. Also look closely at the bolts that attach the shaft to the coupler and the couple to the steering box. None of these bolts may touch each other or the shaft will be shorted to ground. Even a stray wire strand on the wire running down the center of the shaft allowing two neighboring nuts to be bridged would ground the entire shaft and sound the horn. You may eventually have to remove the coupler ring and see if it is causing the shaft to be grounded.

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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Phydous]

[baldessariclan]

[Phydous]

[thomas.]

Are you using castellated nuts with cotter pins on your rag joint ? If so the cotter pins might be grounding out on something as you turn the steering wheel, like the gas tank. making the horn beep ! If that's the case you can adjust the cotterpins bending them in.

[VW_Jimbo]

Can you take a clearer picture of the steering coupler? It is too blurry to make out how you have everything assembled.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[ashman40]

Post pics of the coupler area as well as the upper end of the collapsable area of the steering shaft. They often get close to touching the steering column tube. If they make contact this grounds the shaft and sounds the horn.
Also, there needs to be a gap between the steering wheel and the steering column housing. If the steering wheel makes contact with the housing this too will ground the steering wheel and the horn will sound.
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Phydous]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Still working on this... So far this is what I've found:

There appears to be no electric conduction through the coupler -

The first thing I tried was to simply unplug the spade connector on the coupler connection. It still honked when I turned the key -

Pictures of the coupler connecting bolts - (They don't look compromised to me, but still could be.)

I removed the steering wheel and took everything out down to and including the steering column bearing with shells -

I ran a bore scope down the column just to make sure there wasn't anything broken inside -

And that' where I'm at now. Nothing looks obvious to me.

Any and all suggestions appreciated!!!

I did decide to go ahead and order that part since I have everything disassembled and I'm almost positive that's the original, so just preventative maintenance if nothing else.

As soon as I receive that part I'll get back after it. I miss driving my car!

Thanks for your help!

[VW_Jimbo]

Got a picture of the horn where the wires get connected, attached and plugged into the car?

Then one where that loom goes into the car, along with the trunk side?
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[baldessariclan]

You might want to use your multimeter to check for connectivity/conductance between the bolts on the coupler. If your steering column is totally isolated electrically (like it’s supposed to be, from the insulated bearing shell at top, and coupler at bottom), you should read infinite resistance / no connection between the steering shaft bolts and steering box bolts on the coupler.

Otherwise, yes I’d say the plastic shell on your old steering column bearing is indeed looking a bit thin and/or worn though in a couple spots. The movement of the steering shaft when replacing coupler below may have shifted the old bearing shell enough to let some metal touch at one point or another - ? In any case, probably wouldn’t hurt to replace it w/ a new quality unit.

Only other possibilities I can think of off top of my head are that the new coupler somehow repositioned the steering shaft a bit to where it’s touching the tube in body (like Ashman mentioned earlier), or perhaps that the steering wheel lock pin/bolt is somehow no longer retracting and disengaging from the steering shaft when you turn your ignition key on (which would leave the steering shaft grounded, and thus cause the horn to sound when the electricity gets switched on) - ?
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver

baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt...

[Phydous]

[baldessariclan]

Well, that test ultimately just shows that the steering column is somehow grounding to the body somewhere. As noted earlier, the coupler and upper bearing shell should normally keep it isolated, so either of those two points could be suspect, along with the potential for grounding if the steering column is touching the tube it passes through.

Also keep in mind that when you have your ignition switch in the "off" position, the steering wheel lock pin/bolt should be contacting the column, and thus grounding it. So you need to turn the ignition to the "on" position (w/ battery disconnected) to disengage that lock pin/bolt, prior to performing that continuity test between those coupler bolts -- i.e. just to rule out that potential grounding source.

Otherwise though, am not seeing any pressing need for you to pull the gas tank -- you ought to be able to check all those points discussed above w/out having to do that, right?
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver

baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt...