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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16561
Location: North Florida, USA
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 Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2025 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks at key turn |
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| Phydous wrote: |
| baldessariclan wrote: |
| You might want to use your multimeter to check for connectivity/conductance between the bolts on the coupler. If your steering column is totally isolated electrically (like it’s supposed to be, from the insulated bearing shell at top, and coupler at bottom), you should read infinite resistance / no connection between the steering shaft bolts and steering box bolts on the coupler. |
Hmmmmm... Well, I definitely have connectivity between the bolts. (Kind of hard to see but I have the leads touching two adjacent bolts.)
Looks like the coupler is now the primary suspect. |
Connectivity between the bolts doesn't mean it is the coupler causing it. You're assuming the connectivity between the steering shaft bolt and the steering box bolt is thru the coupler. The continuity measurement you got above only tells you there is a path to ground from the steering shaft. We know the steering box is grounded because it is mounted to the front beam which is mounted to the chassis.
That meter is set to test diodes? Is that the continuity test mode w/ a buzzer? I'm not sure what the "069" reading means? 69 ohms? 69-ohms is rather high resistance reading.
Switch to the 200-ohms range one step CW from where you are and get a proper resistance reading. Between the shaft and the steering box.
If the reading is actually 69ohms this is sort of good. You can leave one probe on the shaft and move your other probe to suspect ground points (eg. steering box, steering column tube, steering column, etc.) When you touch a point that is closer to the physical shaft you should get a lower reading. If, for example, it is 69ohms to the steering box but only 10ohms to the steering tube you know the shaft is connected to the tube before it connected to the steering box.
You need to physically isolate the shaft from the steering box, then make sure the shaft in the steering column is electrically isolated from ground. Since you have removed the upper bearing I don't know if you can know that the steering shaft is not touching the steering column somewhere inside the tube at the top or bottom. You didn't post a pic of the bottom of the steering tube that passes thru the firewall. The collapsible part of the steering shaft comes very close to the tube. By removing the upper bearing the shaft may have shifted and is now touching the tube which would ground the shaft to the body and provide a path to ground. Or it could be grounding at the upper end of the shaft where to comes out of the steering column tube? Maybe test the upper bearing for continuity between the inner and outer shell. Making sure there is no continuity. Replace the bearing and test if the shaft to ground resistance has changed. Then check the shaft to steering box resistance.
The good thing is you seem to have isolated the grounding of the horn (-) circuit to the steering shaft. If your steering shaft is at all grounded it will sound the horn. You just need to isolate where along the shaft it is touching ground.
| Phydous wrote: |
| I REALLY didn't want to take the tank back out... Once I get the new steering column bearing I'll put everything back together and try it again. |
That bearing looks original and replacing it while you are in there is not a terrible idea if there is any play in the bearing. I'm just not a fan of throwing parts at a problem. I'd rather troubleshoot to narrow down where the problem is and just buy the parts needed. But you are admittedly very close now.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Phydous
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Joined: May 23, 2016
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2025 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Horn honks at key turn |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| You need to physically isolate the shaft from the steering box, then make sure the shaft in the steering column is electrically isolated from ground. |
I finally got a chance to install the new steering column bearing. I first tested per ashman40's instructions and there was definitely a grounding issue in there somewhere but since everything was apart it was unclear what was actually causing the ground.
So, it's pretty anticlimactic but once the new bearing was in place and things were back together the ori grounding issue was "fixed". (Notice I said ori issue).
I went for a drive and when I turned the steering wheel the horn would honk. So I took the steering wheel back off and tightened the 4 screws holding the blinker switch in place:
Turns out those are some finicky little bastards. Too tight and the blinkers don't work (and kicked my main breaker switch off the battery power) and too loose and they somehow ground out on the steering collar so the horn honks. Anyway, I think they're set now, everything seems to be working okay.
Thanks to everyone for your help. I have one more question though, the last time I took the steering wheel off I noticed what looks like a part of the insulation sleeve from the steering bearing hanging down behind the blinker switch:
Should I be concerned about that? I wonder if somehow I damaged it when I was installing the bearing...
Thank you again! |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33056
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2025 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks at key turn |
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| Phydous wrote: |
I went for a drive and when I turned the steering wheel the horn would honk. So I took the steering wheel back off and tightened the 4 screws holding the blinker switch in place:
Turns out those are some finicky little bastards. |
Yes, I installed a new turn signal switch into my 1970 a month ago and had to re-adjust the screws to stop intermittent honking.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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baldessariclan
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Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2037
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2025 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks at key turn |
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There are also a couple metal spacers that are supposed to be installed w/ the turn signal switch screws (on the right side of switch), but often go missing over the years — you can just make them out in the switch on the left below:
If you don’t have those in, you can over-tighten those screws and thus cause the turn signal switch to bind up.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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baldessariclan
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Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2037
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2025 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks at key turn |
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| Phydous wrote: |
| too loose and they somehow ground out on the steering collar so the horn honks. |
Check your gap between the steering wheel base and the column/ignition switch housing — it’s supposed to be 2 mm - 4 mm wide. If that gap is too small, then the steering wheel base can potentially touch those screw heads and cause the horn to honk.
You can adjust the gap by sliding the column/ignition switch housing up or down, or alternately by adjusting the steering shaft position up or down where it clamps to the steering coupler fitting (at the bottom end).
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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Phydous
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Joined: May 23, 2016
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2025 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks at key turn |
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| baldessariclan wrote: |
There are also a couple metal spacers that are supposed to be installed w/ the turn signal switch screws (on the right side of switch), but often go missing over the years
If you don’t have those in, you can over-tighten those screws and thus cause the turn signal switch to bind up. |
(I wonder if missing these could have burned out my switch?)
And we're back.
My second drive post fix (luckily I was only a couple of blocks from home) I made a left turn and as I accelerated and canceled the turn switch all at once I lost electricity to all my gauges and my engine shut down. After towing home I looked and found that my #1 (left most) fuse was blown:
I replaced that fuse but there is still no power to my gauges. I think I may have toasted my switch with all the tinkering I did.
So, I'll be taking off the steering wheel, again, to inspect and see what might have happened.
Any thoughts appreciated.
This car is so funstrating. |
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baldessariclan
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Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2037
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2025 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Horn honks at key turn |
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That’s a 16 amp fuse (red) you’re showing pictured above, and to best of my knowledge that circuit is normally supposed to be protected with an 8 amp fuse (white). So you may have melted/burned some wiring or connections somewhere behind the dash or otherwise - ?
Not sure what could be causing the short. If your steering wheel to column housing gap is correct (as discussed above in earlier post), that shouldn’t be an issue. Perhaps some pinched/cut wiring insulation, or bent/mis-located connection point on switch back accidentally touching something that it shouldn’t? Or maybe you’ve got some “creative” wiring or modifications going on elsewhere - ?
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16561
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2025 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks at key turn |
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| Phydous wrote: |
And we're back.... After towing home I looked and found that my #1 (left most) fuse was blown:
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Like baldessariclan says, why do you have a 16A (red) fuse where the wiring/fuse diagram for a '69 would normally have an 8A (white) fuse?
| Phydous wrote: |
| My second drive post fix (luckily I was only a couple of blocks from home) I made a left turn and as I accelerated and canceled the turn switch all at once I lost electricity to all my gauges and my engine shut down. |
This tells me you have something wired wrong. 
No single (stock) fuse should take out everything powered from the ignition switch. The wire to the ignition coil is not fused from the factory.
The #1 and #2 fuses are both powered by the black #15 wire coming off the ignition switch. Find this single solid black wire in the harness of wires coming from the steering column and passing thru the firewall grommet near the fuse box. It will be in the same collection of wires with two thick red wires (one solid red one red/black). Follow this black wire to the fuse box. If your fuse box is wired like the wiring diagram shows it should connect to the top (rear edge) of the fuse box at the #2 fuse. Here is a trunk side view of a '69 fuse box from the gallery:
Note in the above pic, there are four female connectors on the lower right connections (fuses #1 & #2). Behind these four you can see two more connected to the top edge of the fuse box where a brass bridge connects this side of the fuses together. This is the INPUT side of the fuses and the brass bridge allows the single black wire from the ignition switch to power BOTH fuses from this top edge. The second black female terminal connected to this top edge of fuse #1 is the connection that runs to the ignition coil in the engine. Since it is connected to the same bridge the ignition coil is directly powered from the ignition switch BEFORE it passes thru a fuse. This means even if your remove both of these fuses there is STILL power from the ignition switch running to the ignition coil. For whatever reason, your car has a fuse between the ignition switch and the ignition coil. This is not the stock wiring.
I suspect your black ignition switch wire is connected to the WRONG side of the fuse box. Instead of having the power coming from the ignition switch being split at the fuse box into a #1 and #2 path... connecting the ignition switch wire to the bottom of the fuse as shown above means all the current will flow thru one fuse (your 16A #1 fuse?) before it is split on the bridged side. If this miswire is the case, as you add more load to both #1 and #2 (brakes, turn signals, horn, etc.) the 16A fuse carries all the load and it eventually exceeds 16A and the fuse blows.
Post a pic of your fuse box wiring. Identify the two solid black wires... one coming from the ignition switch, and one running into the harness running to the rear of the car (likely the ignition coil wire). Where are these two wires connected?
Confirm the wires connected to the 4 male terminals on the bottom edge. All wires to these bottom terminals should run to devices powered by these two fuses (fuse table/list).
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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