Automatic Transmission rebuild Question

[ddewitt0]

Hello:

I have just completed the rebuild (I hope) of my 090, out of an 85 Vanagon GL. I followed the instructions of the Bentley manual, as well as the forum below. I purchased the Van for this transmission and upon finding out the going rate to have them rebuilt, decided to take it on myself. The transmission seemed to have a failed back to back seal, as the differential was full of ATF, and vise versa. Found the rebuild process to go smoothly for the most part, only getting hung up a few times. I then replaced the flange seals and pan gasket of the differential. The bushings/surfaces of both components had some wear but nothing crazy. I did not replace the bushings and did not remove the inner workings of the differential. I made sure the new o-ring was properly seated on the flange of the differential, then lowered it onto the transmission section. Upon final assembly, my pump shaft appears to sit inward of what the acceptable picture shows. I can pull it out to look like the photo and it just barely engaged. Is the shaft supposed to have end play like this? For clarification, I’m referring to the inner most (smallest OD) rod in the center of the shaft assembly. This is my first rebuild of any transmission and am hoping all goes smoothly for my 83 Westfalia it’s going into. I am a new member to the platform but have used it for reference many times. Any assistance would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance.


Also, any advice for the torque converter situation would be appreciated. Do I run my old one, try to source one (pretty hard from what I gather), or try to rebuild/clean mine. Not sure what to do there lol. Working on limited funds so I’m trying to do the work myself, in an attempt to offset costs. I’m going to be mating this up to a 2.5l swap, in hopes of making it a daily driver (maybe this will help drive some decisions). Thanks again

All the way pushed in

First point of engagement

Overall assembly

Seam where components meet up


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=140

Forum used to aid in rebuild. Thank you to The OP for such an awesome thread.

[MarkWard]

That is the pump shaft. It must be seated in the pump. The base of the pump has a drive foot with splines. If you turn the shaft, if it’s engaged in the pump, I imagine you can feel the difference. I don’t have my manual handy. Post up the pictures you are referencing. I vaguely recall the images. The more critical shaft is the middle shaft. It has steel rings and has splines that need to engage a drum. This will bump your post.

[jlrftype7]

On the later Transmissions with the Stock cooler at the end of the transmission, you have a visible viewing port of your pump shaft to oil pump engagement.
It's the threaded hole right in the middle. With a flashlight, you can easily see the end of the Pump shaft as it is engaged THROUGH the drive flange/'Flower' of the pump correctly. Pump shaft to me, in your picture with it fully installed, looks about right. Remember that this inner most shaft will float a bit between the Pump and the TC, since it doesn't have rings or other parts to engage except what it's splined to, installed.

So, with the TC installed, and hopefully correctly seated, you can slowly turn the TC with help from a friend by hand, while viewing the Oil pump hole/Cooler port at the other end, and see the TC turn your Pump Shaft, engaged in the Pump Drive Flange, sometimes called the Flower by some folks.
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[MarkWard]

Looking at the manual and memory, I’d say it’s the turbine shaft that is not fully seated. The picture on 38.3 assumes the turbine shaft is fully seated. I would not bolt it together until you are 100% sure. The shaft rings can be a bugger to seat. Coat them with petroleum jelly or an assembly lube.

[Shonandb]

I have the same transmission (010) paired with a 2.5L Subaru and it works well.

Regarding the torque converter, I would find a shop that rebuilds them as I had a friend who didn't have his rebuilt and about 1000 miles in driving his swap, the TC failed and he had to have the transmission rebuilt again as well as find another TC.

Regarding the pump drive shaft orientation, it looks too far in, in comparison to the splined shaft above it unless the splined shaft above it is not seated properly. I'll look to see if I have a pic of mine pre assembly.
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image

[Wildthings]

I agree, there must be something wrong with the seating of the turbine shaft, definitely figure this out before moving forward.

[jlrftype7]

[ddewitt0]

All:

Thank you for your time digging into this for me, as well as your advice. I have also come to the same conclusion, after doing some digging of my own, that the turbine shaft isn't seated properly. I found the thread below, as well as a few others, experiencing this same issue. I will attempt to set the turbine shaft this evening and update afterwards. Thanks again!

Also, if anyone knows a good place to get a torque converter rebuilt, that would be awesome. I have been trying to source a new one, but nobody carries them anymore.....

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7490724

[jlrftype7]

[MarkWard]

Without a major internal failure, I would use it over. Set it face up on a bench and siphon the fluid out. I use a piece of vacuum line. Let it siphon over night. Centrifugal force puts any contaminants against the inside housing shell. New support bushing and you should be good to go.

[ddewitt0]

Update:

Turbine shaft went right into place with a few turns and a light push, once I felt the spline slightly resist turning. Photo update below! Thanks again for the help!
I filled it up with oil and no leaks so far! Fingers crossed on this rebuild Will fill with ATF, once I figure out what I want to do for a cooler (another topic with many threads……lol). I’m leaning towards the heat sink style from FAS but am open to anyone with experience on auto/subaru swaps.

I was afraid of that with the torque converter situation. I just wasn’t sure if the fluid mixture having been in there, would flow back into my fresh rebuild, and mess up the frictions. I will get a siphon pump tomorrow and attempt to flush it out the best that I can. I have been looking through multiple threads about them and figured they were scarce. The van had sat for 25 years, but I didn’t get that information until after I had purchased it (found a piece of the registration with the date..). Got the “ran when parked” line when I purchased it lol.

Anyway, I will do my best to keep my rebuild fresh and keep on chugging with my swap. Thanks again to everyone for the help!

[Shonandb]

That looks better!
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image

[MarkWard]

I wouldn’t worry about flushing it. Just drain it. It’s a very slow process. You suck the bottom dry and it begins to fill. Would take a lot of time and patience. The small vacuum line seems to equal the drain rate. Use a piece from the van. I’m talking about the thin plastic line, not the rubber braided.

Plan on a few drive and drain and fills and that should dilute any contamination.

For the cooler. I’m personally not a fan of adding hoses, thermostats, and coolers. Too many points of failure and not knowing where the fluid is routed internally and understanding friction loss, points of failure, just doesn’t work for me. I also don’t know the quality of the factory style, but it’s a good design.

The FAS unit looks clean and avoids the points of failure, but I’m not aware of any published temps vs cooler. Noting the air cooled vanagon automatics had no exchanger/cooler.

There are plenty of automatic vans running with hoses hanging off the automatic without reported issues. We had a customer with GW cooler and a rebuilt automatic. On first start after sitting, the move off shift seemed delayed. Not enough to dig into it. The owner didn’t seem bothered by it. No idea if it was the build, the cooler, or a combination.

[Shonandb]

As "MarkWard" wrote, plan to do a few drive, drain, and refills if you go with the TC as is.

Regarding the trans fluid cooler, I went with a 2' aluminum finned cooler with a 180F thermo unit as I didn't want to have any issues using a fan dependent oil cooler. I have 40,000 km on my swap and regularly pull a sport trailer and drive in the mountains during the summer (90F - 100F) and haven't had any issues. I recently did a trans fluid change and the filter and pan were clean so the cooler has been effective but I didn't know the actual operating temps.

To get a better sense of actual temps, I installed a sensor and gauge for trans fluid temp and the output temp gets up to about 120C while pulling a long hill at 120 kph before the cooler and is around 100C after the cooler flowing back into the transmission. Normal driving is around 95C coming out of the trans and 75-80C after the cooler. flowing back into the trans. The normal stock cooler basically runs at the same temp as your engine coolant so I think my trans fluid is running a bit cooler than normal.

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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image

[Shonandb]

One of the members on the Bay Window Forum from the UK had to have his 010 TC rebuilt and posted the following which I thought I would copy and post here for reference. I would imagine that the TC from an aircooled 010 and a TC from a watercooled 010 would be pretty much the same.

"For rebuilds they used the gubbins in Audi 80s, 90s, passats etc so rebuildable."

[ddewitt0]

Thank you for the helpful information! I haven't made a final decision yet, as I have started tackling the brakes. I will continue my research and settle on a system eventually. lol

Just wanted to add some information that may help others out in the future. During my research efforts for transmission coolers, I began asking companies if they had a source for torque converters. FAS pointed me in the direction of Florida Torque Converter, which they do carry reman units in their warehouse. They are very helpful and responsive by email.

Part number 39-3A.

They no longer had any in stock when I inquired, but offered to rebuild my unit if I sent it in. I have not received my torque converter back yet, in order to verify quality, but I wanted others to know this is an option. Thank you all again for helping me wrap up my rebuild!

[dart330]

[ddewitt0]

Yeah, definitely not a cheap investment. lol It cost more than the rebuild kit for the transmission. In the end, I’d rather fix the issue than take the chance, and have to pull it all back apart haha.

[dart330]

It is always good to have options. I have two cores I would like to get rebuilt while there is still someone doing it.

I wonder why they list it as 1968-1978 Volkswagen Vanagon? Might be worth mentioning to them it should go to 1991 as the year search on the front page doesn't work correctly.
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Driving a 90 Carat since 2014

Previous Buses: 59 Westy, 60 Westy, 74 Bus, 82 Westy, 85 Westy, 87 Syncro
Checkout my Syncro Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JSWhLS7jLY

[jlrftype7]