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Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2025 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

vwwestyman wrote:
Certainly a relay would take load off of the switch and are often a good choice to do so.

However, since a big part of the discussion is on the time it takes to illuminate the brake lights, wouldn't a relay also increase that time? It takes a few mincroseconds to close that connection.


Well, if we're splitting hairs ...

A 12v relay would close in about 3-10 milliseconds. In ideal conditions, human perception can detect 13 milliseconds, so that would make the "trigger time" for a relay imperceptible. With this in mind, I would think a properly adjusted microswitch with a relay would provide the best combination of quickest response and longevity of service.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

OldSchoolVW's wrote:
Well, if we're splitting hairs ...

A 12v relay would close in about 3-10 milliseconds. In ideal conditions, human perception can detect 13 milliseconds, so that would make the "trigger time" for a relay imperceptible. With this in mind, I would think a properly adjusted microswitch with a relay would provide the best combination of quickest response and longevity of service.

Heck, while you're at it why not incorporate an accelerometer into the circuit, such that your brake lights come on whenever you decelerate by taking your foot off the gas while still in gear (i.e. "engine braking")?

Or better yet, just wire the brake lights so that they're on all the time -- people will definitely steer clear of you after that! Super-duper safety!!

Rolling Eyes

(p.s. not specifically picking on you OldSchool -- just not finding a lot of these added brake light switch arguments all that convincing, personally...)
(p.p.s. but that's just me -- everybody has to do their own thing... Smile )
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

Quote:
That difference has already been shown to be inconsequential to crash data after a study of over 1.000.000 cases, NHTA 2013

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Quote:
That difference has already been shown to be inconsequential to crash data after a study of over 1.000.000 cases, NHTA 2013


I have been watching this whole thread....and personally I think those who like the mechanical/modern switch vs the old school hydraulic switches....are on to something. I have already rigged a few mechanical switches over the years (have to dig one out. It was a Ford part).

But, I think it's usefulness has little or nothing to do with a millisecond or so faster closure of the switch.

I wanted to go to a mechanical switch because at the times I was playing with it I was living and driving daily in larger cities with huge amounts of bumper to bumper traffic (Atlanta and Dallas).....and in both cities, the stock hydraulic switches ....in traffic....have what I would call "poor resolution".

My 412 had very good brakes. Going down snaky hills in Atlanta, it was not uncommon to barely have some small amount of brake pedal on....modulating speed.....just dragging rotors and drums....and have someone almost drive up my ass because the brake lights were not on.

Everyone can sit here and quote the miniscule pressure amount that it "should" take to turn these switches on....but with age and even worse....with new crappy parts.....that's not always the case. After my 411 wagon got whacked in the rear bumper in Atlanta....guy said he did not see brake lights and I believe him....I went to a mechanical switch backing up the bydro switches. Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2025 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

I find it all bit of a moot point personally, since I don’t really use my brakes all that much to begin with. I tend to decelerate mainly just by taking my foot off the gas, and engine braking & downshifting as necessary. And I do this in both manual and automatic transmission cars (this is a bit easier and more effective in the manuals of course, for the most part).

I’ve always found that if I give myself enough time and room (i.e. to the car in front of me, or to the next stop/stoplight, etc.), I only really need to use my brakes occasionally, such as when finally coming to a full stop, or in ‘panic’ situations, etc. Doesn’t really even take all that much extra distance/spacing, either — the old “2 second rule” (for spacing to car ahead of you) usually gives sufficient time such that I rarely need to use the brakes to slow down and maintain safe distance to whatever’s in front of me.

That’s been my experience over the years, anyway. And that includes driving in congested cities, downhill in the mountains, etc., etc. Note that I do have good quality brake light switches installed in my VW Bug, and they seem to work fine for me. Also, I’ve only ever been rear-ended once, and that was by a felon fleeing police during a car chase — I never saw him coming (was at night, and he had switched his lights off), so no brakes or brake lights were involved in that incident…
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2025 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

“Brakes are for emergencies and poor planning.”

-Unattributed but was written by a sage here
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2025 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2025 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

baldessariclan wrote:
I find it all bit of a moot point personally, since I don’t really use my brakes all that much to begin with. I tend to decelerate mainly just by taking my foot off the gas, and engine braking & downshifting as necessary. And I do this in both manual and automatic transmission cars (this is a bit easier and more effective in the manuals of course, for the most part).

I’ve always found that if I give myself enough time and room (i.e. to the car in front of me, or to the next stop/stoplight, etc.), I only really need to use my brakes occasionally, such as when finally coming to a full stop, or in ‘panic’ situations, etc. Doesn’t really even take all that much extra distance/spacing, either — the old “2 second rule” (for spacing to car ahead of you) usually gives sufficient time such that I rarely need to use the brakes to slow down and maintain safe distance to whatever’s in front of me.

That’s been my experience over the years, anyway. And that includes driving in congested cities, downhill in the mountains, etc., etc. Note that I do have good quality brake light switches installed in my VW Bug, and they seem to work fine for me. Also, I’ve only ever been rear-ended once, and that was by a felon fleeing police during a car chase — I never saw him coming (was at night, and he had switched his lights off), so no brakes or brake lights were involved in that incident…


For the record, I was for not guilty and the records were sealed. I do display it at our WITSEC open house each year.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2025 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

baldessariclan wrote:
I find it all bit of a moot point personally, since I don’t really use my brakes all that much to begin with. I tend to decelerate mainly just by taking my foot off the gas, and engine braking & downshifting as necessary. And I do this in both manual and automatic transmission cars (this is a bit easier and more effective in the manuals of course, for the most part).

That is the reason I like a mechanical brake light switch. I can light up my brake lights without actually applying any brakes. Sometimes when slowing down the idiot behind me needs a wake-up call.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
baldessariclan wrote:
Also, I’ve only ever been rear-ended once, and that was by a felon fleeing police during a car chase — I never saw him coming (was at night, and he had switched his lights off), so no brakes or brake lights were involved in that incident…

For the record, I was for not guilty and the records were sealed. I do display it at our WITSEC open house each year.

Ha! The actual perp was facing his “third strike” felony charge while running from the cops — had a large amount of meth on him when they caught him. I got subpoenaed couple years later to testify for the prosecution in his final court hearing — he’d tried a couple different defense attorneys, and then decided to defend himself, but eventually lost the case. Don’t know what his sentence was, but hopefully a fairly long one. Good chance he could kill somebody if he ever gets back on the road again… Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Using motorcycle brake light switch for quicker brake lights? Reply with quote

OldSchoolVW's wrote:
vwwestyman wrote:
Certainly a relay would take load off of the switch and are often a good choice to do so.

However, since a big part of the discussion is on the time it takes to illuminate the brake lights, wouldn't a relay also increase that time? It takes a few mincroseconds to close that connection.


Well, if we're splitting hairs ...

A 12v relay would close in about 3-10 milliseconds. In ideal conditions, human perception can detect 13 milliseconds, so that would make the "trigger time" for a relay imperceptible. With this in mind, I would think a properly adjusted microswitch with a relay would provide the best combination of quickest response and longevity of service.


You can go solid state with a transistor for switching the lights. You can buy transistorized units with the proper resistors built in, and it is plug and play like a relay, I have done this on a 6 volt old Porsche. Or build your own with a transistor and some resistor.

Here is a neat tutorial on how to build your own automotive application relay solid state replacement with a MOSFET Transistor and some resistors....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlcUzz-Nnro&t=411s


A switch off the pedal lever for quick, early turn on, LED stop light bulbs for quick turn on, and a solid state relay for quick turn on. Use bright LED bulbs, add lights on old VWs such as a high mount brake light.

Be safe, stop safe, live to drive another day.
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