Installing a GoWesty 2.45 and GW EFI in my '86 Westfalia

[DanHoug]

thanks for posting that, Dan57. i've been reading a lot about the initial break-in of flat tappet engines and won't be doing my own rebuild break-in that way but i won't disparage their process either.

it is still really irksome to me that a garage has to do this start up to validate the warranty. i get it, need some degree of control of the process with an independant 3rd party. just wish there was a way the home mechanic could document each step to validate the warranty. dunno what that would be.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[Alaskaberrys]

[Alaskaberrys]

[RBEmerson]

A lot of things have changed with GW and the EFI since 2022. All of them are, to be blunt, deal breakers.

In order to flash any firmware (f/w), a utility called Pi-Snoop has to be used. In the past, GW supplied Pi-Snoop as part of the update. In my last go-around with GW, the Pi-Snoop supplied was past its expiration date (there's a built in "drop dead" date in demo copies). The options were either hope GW would come up with a live version (I was told "could take months"), buy it (~$2000 from the source only), or install Pi-Snoop on a laptop where you can set the date to before the drop dead date (this screws up Windows if left in too long). I did the later on a "should have been recycled" laptop successfully. $2K to be able to re-flash f/w is a dealbreaker. Hacking a laptop as a work-around is a near dealbreaker.

GW has outsourced EFI support to "Mechanical Minds, Inc." in Colorado. Support is not free: $75/30 minutes, which is GW's now standard policy for support. $150/hr for VW "phone sex"? Puh-leeze!

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I went through the support process because I replaced the cylinder heads on our GW 2.2L. Long story short, an exhaust valve was hanging in the guide (after 12+ years, call it "fair wear and tear", or no blame attaches). The EFI f/w essentially trains itself as the engine runs (as per info from Mechanical Minds), and had adapted itself to running on what amounts to 3.5 cylinders. Unfortunately, the f/w couldn't cope with now running on 4 cylinders. The suggested cure was to reflash the f/w which lead to the learning experience with Pi-Snoop.

In the end, I reflashed the f/w, the engine now runs well. Discounting two persistent problems with any GW EFI (1-p***poor tip-in behavior, 2-inclination to stall when the AC compressor is running while quickly coming off high RPM's at, for example, a traffic light).

FWIW, I've looked at yanking the GW EFI and going to MicroSquirt, except I'd have to buy a distributor, etc, and MicroSquirt doesn't support OBD (or does it???) and I rely on my ScanGauge for tracking consumption, etc.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change.

[Alaskaberrys]

That’s certainly discouraging to hear. I’ve already purchased the EFI a couple years back so pretty much all in with that aspect regardless. On the plus side our 2.1l engine is running great so perhaps it won’t need to be Pi-Snooped unless later upgrading to 2.45l will require it. Will have to query GW as to that possibility.
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'91 Westfalia, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2.1L 2wd Auto
'91 T3 Syncro Doka, Escorial Green 1.9L TD AAZ “Gremian” (to provoke, irritate, exasperate, vex...)

[Dan57]

I think RBEmerson bought one of the early EFI setups.
One of the main reasons I went with the GoWesty setup is I wanted a finalized version of EFI.
I didn't want to hook my van up to a PC, trying to tweek the tune.
I was looking for more of a plug n play, which it has been.
My EFI has been flawless since I installed it, but it was installed on a new engine without any running problems. Not sure how well it would compensate for major engine problems.
The outsourcing of tech help for $150 an hour is pretty lame, I know when I installed mine a few years ago any questions I had were answered promptly by Brian from GW.
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'86 camper, GW 2450 with GW-EFI, AT with Peloquin

[Alaskaberrys]

Thanks for that. Do you feel the install had any steps that a novice might screw up on? The instructions seem very clear to me - tho I am not familiar with the process - I feel if I adhere to the steps 100% I’ll do ok. Plus our current 2.1L is running great so seems like it would be a good trial.
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'91 Westfalia, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2.1L 2wd Auto
'91 T3 Syncro Doka, Escorial Green 1.9L TD AAZ “Gremian” (to provoke, irritate, exasperate, vex...)

[RBEmerson]

Correct, I was an early adopter. Faced with trips where finding Digifant spares were scarce as hens teeth, I moved to the GW EFI.

Brian is no longer at GW, and I have no hints about where he went.

GW charges for phone support, and the folks in CO are "just following orders".

Driving around with a laptop on the front seat to get MicroSquirt dialed is fine if you're a t00nR d00d. Otherwise? Pass. No OBD, no deal. End of story.

At the moment, our Westy has around 270K on the chassis, The TA was replaced about 20K back, the motor was swapped by GW when the PO drove it there (the previous TA was a GW TA also done by GW at the PO's request). Generally speaking, I think it's hit a point where, were I so inclined, I'd use it as a daily driver with no particular service gripes. Which means the EFI works, aside from the two persistent gripes mentioned earlier.

The "sometimes the AC causes stalling" gripe is as old as the GW EFI installation. Ditto for lurching at tip-in (i.e., coming off or going on to idle with TPS under ~10-15). Given the alternatives (MicroSquirt or Digifant), I put up with it. If it happened in either of our other cars (BMW or Volvo), I'd be less charitable.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change.

[Dan57]

Alaskaberrys, the install was easy and fun (for me)
Very clear instructions.
The 2 most difficult parts were removing the crank pulley to install the toothed wheel (fortunately once I removed the crank bolt the pulley slid right off), and trying to get the rubber seal that the harness uses to go through the firewall in place. I had to loosen the back seat and slide it forward to access the cutout in the firewall.
Once installed it started right up and has been good ever since.

RBEmerson, I also had a slight stumble off the line initially, and had the van stall coming to a stop once when the A/C was on.
What solved it for me was replacing my Mansi injectors with the stock ones.
To tell you the truth, to this day I'm not really sure what fixed the problem- replacing the Mansi injectors or properly installing and seating new seals for the old original injectors
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'86 camper, GW 2450 with GW-EFI, AT with Peloquin

[RBEmerson]

At the moment I have GW's purple (color ID marking) injectors - AFAIK "latest and greatest". The f/w is (allegedly) tweaked for these injectors. Tip-in is still not right (engine lurches from idle to off-idle and back repeatedly). The AC issue is... I'm very good at bump-starting in traffic. Grrr...

Agreed pulling the crank pulley, and passing the wiring loom, are...um...opportunities to excel.

While I'm whinging, I'll mention the coil/plug assemblies in GW EFI are prone to water damage. I don't want to recall the time and money spent on trying to get them truly waterproof. Suffice it driving in "frog choker" rain is a tense time... MicroSquirt gets props for staying with a distributor and single coil. (Brian told me GW initially planned on only a cam angle sensor for the system, but found it much too variable [VW manufacturing issues]-even with the crank angle sensor used instead, the system would never see the distributor returned)
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change.

[Phishman068]

The Mansi Speed EFI system is what I'd go with at this point. It's well supported and adds tangible horsepower in the van I test drove. It's smooth, and I believe it's Megasquirt based, so you can flash and tune it yourself- but it comes set up, and I believe it also has OBD so it can run a scangauge? Not positive on that one.

It's a nice system.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936

"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry."

[RBEmerson]

The last info I have in e-mail with MansiSpeed is their EFI does not support OBD. Even though changing to MansiSpeed from the GW EFI would involve (for me) reverting to a distributor-based ignition, I'd seriously consider it. If it supported OBD, which, according to MansiSpeed, it doesn't.Even an add-on adapter would be acceptable, but there's no indication it exists in the MicroSquirt world.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change.

[Phishman068]

Mansi speed doesn’t use a distributor, you’re quite wrong there- so not sure where you’re getting the rest of your info.

You might want to do some research, it’s a very refined system and people love it.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936

"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry."

[4Gears4Tires]

[RBEmerson]

Or tell my wife to sit in back to make room for the laptop. And replace the dash with something from a 747 or A-330. And crank the ECU to backfire through the fart can exhaust on trailing throttle. Fail.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change.

[bertobarb]

[Dan57]

The drive train was originally designed for 95 hp, I was more comfortable with my judicious application of 47% more power than 80%.
At the time I purchased my engine, the EFI was eligible for the 5% go bucks but the engine wasn't. Not sure what the policy is now.
I've got well over 40,000 miles on the 2450/EFI combination with daily local use and a couple of 5,000 plus mile trips- the engine and EFI have worked out great.
The setup has been both decently powerful and totally reliable.
I wouldn't think twice about gassing it up and driving across country tomorrow.
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'86 camper, GW 2450 with GW-EFI, AT with Peloquin

[bertobarb]

[RBEmerson]

I have a 2.2 that was installed by GW a while back, and I added the GW EFI as an early adopter. Cutting to the chase, knowing what I know now, I'd have spent the money on a Subaru conversion.

The joint along the case halves was never sealed right; I've p***ed away far too much money on rear crank seals, when it's the case that leaks just enough to be annoying, but not enough to tear the motor part to re-seal it.

Support on the EFI hinged on one person who, when things went well, had some useful info. That person's gone and GW now wants $75/30 minutes for any support at all. Feel free to ask me how I know. Grrr...

While the EFI itself seems to work well (always room for improvement, I guess), its behavior on tip-in (i.e., "just a touch on the pedal") sucks. No other way to put it.

We have OEM AC; with the compressor running, coming off road speed R's to idle (e.g., coming to a stop sign or traffic light from 30-40 MPH) the engine may stop running (idle R's drop to 4-600 and don't recover). This has been an issue from day 1. There's been some improvement (from firmware and injector updates) over time, but the problem remains.

In general, due to the motor, EFI (quasi-)support, and an excitement from a GW transaxle, I've pretty much put GW on my "least favored vendors" list.
_________________
Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change.