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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42745
Location: at the beach
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 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2025 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| airschooled wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| airschooled wrote: |
If “health issues” is code for “drug addiction and theft,” yes, Adam is having health issues.
I worked on two of his “restored” buses this week, and you are going to need a lawyer if you want to see a cent of your money ever again.
Robbie |
I think Robbie is tired of people being taken advantage of by less than professional mechanics. |
“Professional” just means it’s your main income. I’m
Tired of bad mechanics.
Robbie |
professional is a code of ethics and behavior too. You can give yourself credit for the hard work you do without seeming to be self serving. I think you have earned it.
I sometimes think of all the buses out on the road these days that would not have been there were it not for TheSamba Community Service Center aka BayForum. All the people here who put in time so people can use their buses. I too am saddened when someone fails to perform what they charged for although Caveat Emptor applies too.
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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17660
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2025 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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We’ve got our share of criminals down here too.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=623407&highlight=manny
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 24029
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 3:49 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| Quote: |
| I don't know ANY shop that runs that way. Why would a shop finance anything for anyone? |
EVery shop I’ve worked with. Any my business too. If I give you cash , I’m financing you. If you can’t get a credit line to buy parts net 30, that tells me everything.
All of this is different for a lengthy restoration.
My goal here is to de-normalize deposits for 99.99% of projects, skills excepted
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1643
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 6:58 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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on a big job ,payment should be made in tranches on a predetermined work completed basis,and to protect all parties the funds should be held and dispersed by a third party.smaller jobs don't need a deposit ,provided the value of the vehicle exceeds the cost of the repair,and it can be sold to recoupe the costs.
the work order is the contract and should cover actions in the event of default by either party.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17870
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 7:54 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| lil-jinx wrote: |
| on a big job ,payment should be made in tranches on a predetermined work completed basis |
Exactly. You want an engine, transmission or a pile of sheet metal ordered, pay up.
For run of the mill stuff...brakes, suspension (unless something exotic) aren't really worthy of a deposit but your big ticket repairs it's becoming the norm, even on new cars.
Bottom line is most people don't have the $$ for their daily needs, let alone some vintage iron.
and Abscate is so far detached from reality...net 30 is long gone in the automotive world. The dealers I use, Napa, Worldpac, SSF etc are either paid at purchase or the very best is weekly. You think they are going to let me run up a 80k bill in a month and pray I pay them? They all have a credit card that gets billed at the time I order anything.
You seem to have a lot of assumptions for a guy who has never run or been in a shop 
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 24029
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 10:18 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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A credit card is a Net 30-60 device
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42745
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 11:29 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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yes on how often the balance should be zero on a credit card. The interest rate will bleed you otherwise.
There are good shops and we just experienced one. In 1992 I took my CJ7 jeep to a shop nearby here that had a good amount of skill and equipment. The Jeep engine head had been reworked by a local machine shop a couple weeks before but after I installed it, there was a misfire that I could not find. The shop here ran it on their analyzer, I was expecting a distributor wear. The mechanic said he was pretty sure I had worn valve guides based on the ignition wave form. (has to do with firing voltage vs dwell and timing etc..) I pulled the head that had about 900 miles on it and the guides on two cylinders were already bad. The machine shop refunded the cost and I bought a good low (2000 mile) head from a local jeep wrecking yard. The problem went away and it was still going fine when I sold it a year later. Fast forward to today, 2025. The shop is still family owned, some of the same people are there but 30 years older. Ratings on Google and Yelp are still almost 5.0. The Sable wagon has/had a knock in the right rear quarter panel. Since I can't use a wrench for about a year, we took it to them to inspect - a bad ball joint that comes apart can ruin your day. But it turned into only a 10 minute inspection and fix. The right rear shock top mount was loose and that is what I was hearing while sitting in the back seat each time Cathy took me to the doctor's. (rear seat was doctor's orders after heart surgery). The bill was N/C. $0.00. Same kind of thing I did when I was a mechanic - on something that simple, building the good faith brings a shop more long term than gouging someone. They will get any other business in the next year, and there will be some. We will refer people, although they are already quite busy. They will get a gift card from us - Starbucks or something, and a thank you card. We appreciate businesses that want our business. I wanted to share this to help offset the wrong the OP of this experienced. Maybe cancel out some of the bad Karma that Adam? created.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17870
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 11:55 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| A credit card is a Net 30-60 device |
you'll never fucking get it dude.
next you're going to tell me to leverage real estate using "someone else's money" is a path to wealth.
Not to turn this into a personal finance lesson...but....
People have said (in this thread even) that I "don't care".."don't bring cars to skills" and so on and you know what...they aren't wrong. Why?
Because my wife and I broke our asses to get to a place where we can genuinely say 'go fuck yourself' and not have to work for people/jobs that absolutely suck.
How did we do it? By not having and unnecessary debt. Other than the house which is a stroke of a pen from being paid off we owe zero.
Once people realize being debt free is the most liberating thing on the planet, they will never go back.
So by your logic, I run up the business credit card (with the interest running up) and get stuck with an engine/trans/order I can't return or get paid for if the customer bounces...then I have to chase money, spend time NOT making money and possibly walk away at a loss? You'd last 6 minutes in the automotive biz.
And this is why shops get themselves in trouble. everyone seems to think that a shop owner (or any business owner) is a multi millionaire. It's so far from the truth....
can't pay your bills by doing favors. sorry.
anyway, back to the o/p
you're in a spot where it's probably not financially feasible to recoup any money. An attorney is going to be 5k minimum and with all of the bleeding heart judges...if...and I mean IF you even get a judgment...it will be for 13.00/mo for 8,000 months.
It's sad, but true
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 13326
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
Because my wife and I broke our asses to get to a place where we can genuinely say 'go fuck yourself' and not have to work for people/jobs that absolutely suck.
How did we do it? By not having and unnecessary debt. Other than the house which is a stroke of a pen from being paid off we owe zero.
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Link
Normal, quick, in & out repairs, sure, I’ll buy the parts & bill the customer when the job is completed.
If, after a quick calculation, I feel that the parts are worth more than the vehicle, I’m getting a deposit to at least cover the cost of the parts. That makes it that much more difficult for the customer to walk away when the bill comes due.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17870
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
Normal, quick, in & out repairs, sure, I’ll buy the parts & bill the customer when the job is completed.
If, after a quick calculation, I feel that the parts are worth more than the vehicle, I’m getting a deposit to at least cover the cost of the parts. That makes it that much more difficult for the customer to walk away when the bill comes due. |
You're picking up what I'm laying down 100%
and that method you laid out is just about the norm for almost any shop these days. Do you think Kindig, Ring Bros, Foose etc are going to build your dream car without a deposit? If you answer yes, you need to watch the video TDC posted....
and about that video...yes 100%
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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ALLWAGONS
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2000
Posts: 4637
Location: Pasadena CA/DTLA soon China
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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This translates to ALL businesses. Work ethics, work ethics and work ethics. A business has to have profit to operate, but the customers should not have to pay for your fancy tastes. As a business owner, you must reinvest in your business to keep it going. Yes a freebie here and there will lock customers forever! I am already in my 3rd generation of customers in my businesses. Live below your means, if you cannot handle the workload, DONT TAKE ANY MORE JOBS! Learn to say no! I see many dhops charging excessive amounts for many jobs. I have a friend who owns a custom cabinet shop. Everything $50-$75k ranged and a 6-8 month wait time. Shit gets built in a week, but according to him, how do you justify $75 grand? Crook in my book! Going back to the OP, why not just get another engine installed?? Forget it and move on!
Martin
Allwagons
_________________
I'd be UNSTOPPABLE if not for Law Enforcement and PHYSICS.
I recycle old cars and parts, other than when I rot, that's as Green as I am going to get.
Thanks to my Tesla driving neighbors, I feel more relaxed driving my SUBURBAN and old VW's.
Everything sounds good on paper! |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42745
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| ALLWAGONS wrote: |
This translates to ALL businesses. Work ethics, work ethics and work ethics. A business has to have profit to operate, but the customers should not have to pay for your fancy tastes. As a business owner, you must reinvest in your business to keep it going. Yes a freebie here and there will lock customers forever! I am already in my 3rd generation of customers in my businesses. Live below your means, if you cannot handle the workload, DONT TAKE ANY MORE JOBS! Learn to say no! I see many dhops charging excessive amounts for many jobs. I have a friend who owns a custom cabinet shop. Everything $50-$75k ranged and a 6-8 month wait time. Shit gets built in a week, but according to him, how do you justify $75 grand? Crook in my book! Going back to the OP, why not just get another engine installed?? Forget it and move on!
Martin
Allwagons |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13525
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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I think the secret to happiness is the 10% rule. Advertise enough so I only have time to reply to the best 10% of inquiries. Of those, only the best 10% of jobs get booked.
Trouble is, most people can’t define “best” before it’s too late. I’m glad to be old enough to recognize problems before they show up on my calendar.
A waiting list of strangers is worth exactly what they’ve paid. Reliable relationships are where the real gold is.
Robbie
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17870
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 8:12 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| airschooled wrote: |
A waiting list of strangers is worth exactly what they’ve paid. Reliable relationships are where the real gold is.
Robbie |
IF that's a dig at me or my comment, so be it and as far as I'm concerned you can go fuck a cactus. But not that it matters....everyone on that list has made a deposit and has their project in the works.
Reliable relationships do matter but there is a finite amount of money the same 6 people in that category are willing to spend. I've done this long enough that my legacy client base has faded but their kids/family continue to come in. You have to network. Even you're smart enough to know that.
Robbie... at best your a fucking "consultant" that plays "mechanic" walking a very thin line seeing you don't have a brick and mortar shop. So until you or guys like your hero Colin throw your balls on the table and open a brick and mortar shop your smug asshole comments about how you *think* a shop is run should be taken with a grain of salt. Because until you have the insurance, licensing, shop and overhead to work on vehicles you'll never understand.
At best, you're a "professional hobbyist" that charges near as much as a legit shop, and you work out of a tackle box in a parking lot.
That said, I think you have a very good grasp on how these things work and honestly, I do think you are a good consultant. In fact, I have told people to reach out to you for PPI's (weather they did or not is unknown) But believe it or not, I do respect what you do for the community. I may not always agree with *how* you do it however....
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17660
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 10:31 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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We have a thing here in California called “small claims court”. Just the judge and the main characters, no lawyers. Maybe that’s an option for the OP.
I’ve told many people that restoration shops around here have a high percentage of drug users running them. More than once I’ve known of customers having to threaten these losers with violence in order to just get their cars back.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
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ALLWAGONS
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2000
Posts: 4637
Location: Pasadena CA/DTLA soon China
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| aeromech wrote: |
We have a thing here in California called “small claims court”. Just the judge and the main characters, no lawyers. Maybe that’s an option for the OP.
I’ve told many people that restoration shops around here have a high percentage of drug users running them. More than once I’ve known of customers having to threaten these losers with violence in order to just get their cars back. |
Not a saint, but it surprises how many "professionals" are drug users. My neighbor in his 70's works for Disney, a designer and engineer, yet he hits the crack pipe ever so often. I can't say it enough, there are business people and people with businesses. If your expenses are eating up your income, you my friend are not generating a profit! I have no idea what entails to run a mechanics shop, but I can't see why shops charge so much!
_________________
I'd be UNSTOPPABLE if not for Law Enforcement and PHYSICS.
I recycle old cars and parts, other than when I rot, that's as Green as I am going to get.
Thanks to my Tesla driving neighbors, I feel more relaxed driving my SUBURBAN and old VW's.
Everything sounds good on paper! |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 24029
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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A shop needs $130-200 an hour billable to make ends meet and pay the bills, and half that without brick and mortar. No mystery there.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17870
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| ALLWAGONS wrote: |
| but I can't see why shops charge so much! |
because rent (mortgage) utilities, insurance, etc are 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
let's say your rent/mortgage is 6500/mo (which is on the low end for a decent sized shop)
there are 8760 hours in a year or 730 a month or 182.5 hours per week
that 6500 is always running... so that means 6500/730=8.90 per hour just to own the place.
now add in training, equipment, printers, coffee, maintenance etc and you're at 125/hr JUST to put your key in the door. Now add the salary, workmans comp, health insurance, retirement etc etc
The meter is "always running" and you need to extract that dollar amount in the time your open, so you need to make those numbers come together in say a 40 hour week
That is why shit costs so much. Anyone doing it any other way is going to work for free and/or die broke
and you put it very well, there are business people and people who own a business. The people who own a business typically have a business that owns them.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17660
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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What’s referred to as “recreational use” is one thing but having a drug problem is another. These guys are doing drugs before, during, and after work. I’m sure there are other losers who defraud customers who don’t use drugs too. Here in California drug use is pretty wide spread.
On the topic of shop rates. I took a bus fuel tank to my local radiator shop in the San Diego area. The price for his service is about triple what it was 15 years ago when I first started using him. He told me that his permit to operate his “hot tank” had gone sky high and that is government controlled.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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jjvincent
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016
Posts: 1435
Location: Bethlehem, PA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2025 10:07 am Post subject: Re: The Bus guy |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| busman78 wrote: |
| Never, never, never pre-pay for work to be done. If the shop has to have a down payment find another shop. Handing over cash and your car is a recipe for getting took, there is no incentive for doing the work, doing it right or in a timely manner. |
100% disagree
If it's a legit shop with a good reputation then there's nothing to worry about.
Think of it this way
You drop off your 2022 (whatever) for service work. It's your daily driver. The shop fixes it, you come and pay the bill. Done. If you bounce, they have something of value and can do all said paperwork.
Now you drop off your 40, 50,60 year old cherished shitbox, all of the parts are special order, days/weeks away. The shop spent a ton of time figuring shit out, ordering parts and now your precious pile of shit is a "zombie car" that is sucking up space and can't be worked on until parts roll in.
Now the paperwork to file for an abandoned car is even worse due to the age and probably messed up paperwork dating back decades...if there is any paperwork at all...
Not only that, 98% of people demand said pile of sadness is stored indoors which is now costing even more money...but every second this thing lays around...indoors or out...it's a huge insurance liability.
And this is exactly why so few will even work on these things anymore, then they end up at some no name "shop" and posts like the o/p's are made.
If you think for a minute I'm going to order parts for an engine or a rebuilt transmission for your 50 year old car on my dime without a deposit, you can tow the thing right back out of here. In fact, they don't even make it in the driveway without a deposit being agreed upon. |
People just need to go to any bodyshop and this happens all of the time. Some dude has this dream (insert vehicle name here) and it needs a ton of work. So they put down some money and the body shop literally cranks out tons of labor on it. Then it gets to the point where the dude somehow now is short on money and thus uses your place as a private free storage lot. Then he becomes impossible to reach. Then it just sits and you the shop owner are out all of this labor because you threw it into this vehicle while other paying customers are waiting. Now you have some half done (insert vehicle here) that nobody wants so getting an abandoned title for it is not worth it.
I'm not saying there are not bad shops out there but in the end, with the intranets, you can figure out who are the bad players nowadays. When someone talks about health issues and has the time to post about it, they have the time to talk to you to tell you to come pick it up and give you a deposit back. If not, they are spending the money for deposits on other things and health issues is the best way to get others to feel sorry for you. I've seen it more than once. |
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