Do I have unrealistic expectations?

[65RustyCan]

Hey everyone,

I have a 65 beetle with a 1500cc motor. This is my second season with it. Did a long drive recently (doing 90-100km/h for 2hrs) and sprung a massive oil leak. I live in Ontario Canada, and would like to be able to comfortably do 100km/h - 105km/h. I’ve been looking at 1915cc’s. Would a standard 1915cc give me enough power to comfortably cruise at 100-105km/h so I can travel on 400series hwys. I know transmission plays a role in it, I do not have a freeway flyer, but my father seems to be convinced that no size engine will give me that comfortably doing 100km/h-105. Am I wrong to think a bit more CC’s will give me the power I’m looking for?

[Glenn]

100Kph is about 62mph, you're stock 1500SP should be able to do that reliably as long as it's in good working order.

The factory states maximum cruising speed is 78mph - 125kph

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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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[Brian_e]

Rebuild your engine into a 1776, new stock valve aa500 heads with the bowls cleaned up, and good valve job, use a mild cam like a cb2232, 8.8:1, .040" deck height, a pair of Kadrons, and a Vintage Speed ss143 muffler.

Get all the build details right, re-use all the stock tin, and it will do 65mph all day long.

A pair of 205/65 tires also helps the gearing a bunch.

A fresh rebuilt 1600cc should also get you there, but it will be straining, and that is what builds heat. A well thought out larger engine will not have to work nearly as hard, and it will keep itself cooler. Also much more fun to drive, and it makes merging into traffic MUCH less risky.

Brian
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So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok

Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
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Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts

[Alstrup]

A 1500 will give you an easy 100-110 kmh cruise, unless it is worn down to its knees.
My 1600 stocker plus engines will cruise all day at 130-135 kmh with a little power to spare.
The ´65 has a 4,375 Transmission which is for a 1300 engine. so it is lower geared. A 1500 will still do 100-110 all day, but it revs higher than it needs to do the job.
If you want to go "all the way" to a socalled freeway flyer transmission you should pay attention to how you build the engine and where it pulls torque, so the engine has power reserves to handle hills or overtaking trucks without having to stir the pot all the time.
If your dad thinks it is necessary to have 200 hp more than needed to cruise comfortably at 100 kmh then he is probably right that you will not get there
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[Dusty1]

62mph? Easy! My benchmark '67 w/ 4.37 diff cruised at an easy 65mph.

I wound find a good '73- '74 core and build a warmed over 1600. CB2280 or 2228 cam although you can't go wrong with a 2232, either. Detail the heads. Get the compression ratio right, 8.2:1 on the conservative side or 8.8:1 if you're adventurous.

A 1776 only takes a little machine work.

You want the 200mm clutch and flywheel if you don't have it already.


When the tech guys are lookin' at our car at the track we move to the opposite end. If they're kookin' at the tires we pop a few wheels off and work on the brakes. If they're lookin' at our motor we work on the transmission.

A '65 would benefit from an IRS swap which facilitates an abundant supply of decent used transmissions. IRS is the original "freeway flyer". Naysayers will tell you VW juggled the gearing so it's supposedly not too far from my '67. My carefully calibrated ass tells me different.

.
.

[Zed999]

I had a 1200 '65 Beetle that cruised at 60mph easily... once it got there. It had only done 30,000 miles from new which probably helped and we never hit a hill where we lived which was no doubt the deciding factor.

[65RustyCan]

Thank you guys for all the feedback. A lot to think about moving forward but I’m certainly going to look into making sure my 1500cc is dialed in.

[geeze]

[oprn]

My '64 Beetle with a 40 HP 1200 did it. So did my '69 1600 SP Bay window Bus. Your 1500 is sick, sick, sick! Typical today what with a lack of know how to maintain these cars, random mismatched parts, and guys throwing away the good German stuff in favor of "the new parts are always better" mentality, all which are of cheap Chinese origin.

Far too many "Joe greasy thumb" shade tree mechanics who knew a guy who's Uncle - in - law's cousin's ex was an expert on those things and said to throw away A, B and C and buy all new stuff from XYZ Company and it will have HUGE power! Now the thing can hardly pull the hat off your head, overheats and drinks fuel like a Cadillac.

Watch the first installment video of this thread to see an engine in the same sort of condition yours is. You will find it at the end of page 4.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...+1600+make

Get yourself a good repair manual, go through a thorough tune up that engine including a compression test. Post up the compression test results (after a valve lash adjustment), pictures of what you have for a distributor and carb, pictures of the engine compartment tin and parameter sealing rubber and the muffler if possible.

If there is any decent amount of life left in that 1500 we will help you get it running properly again. Then after driving it you can decide if you need to spend $3K to $5K building a monster engine.

As for the transaxle... if it's quiet and shifts ok, leave it alone. It's perfectly matched for your engine.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[geeze]

[oprn]

Define massive.

I have had a number of oil leaks on engines of all types with no reflection whatsoever on engine condition. It's a 50 year old car, if it didn't leak oil on one of the 50 or 60 possible places it would be because there is no oil in it to leak.

The only massive leak that would concern me overly on a 50 year old engine is one from a hole in the case with a connecting rod hanging out. Everything else is seals and gaskets. Just maintenance things.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[modok]

It's unclear why your car can't go 60mph

so it's unclear if making the engine larger will help

If the engine is running out of breath, then making it larger will would make the problem worse.

if it's short on torque, then it would make it better

The most wimpy 1600cc vw engine I ever put together could barely go 60mph in third gear, it was quite a shock
but luckily there is fourth gear, in which it could maintain 70-80 mph

if it's running out of breath it could be you have a flat cam, or somebody put 1300cc size heads or carb or intake on it.

is it a 1200 converted to 1500 with big bore jugs???

[jpaull]

Driving a bug stock height at 65mph is nuts. The front end feels like its trying to lift up and fly away.

Along with enough power to drive "normal" speed on the freeway a bug should have a carefully lowered stance, disk brakes, and proper seat belts.

Do this and you will be alot more safe. I built a 1679cc freeway cruiser just for commuting. 3.88 R&P and .82 4th. The only thing I regret is i should have bumped the compression and tightend the deck. It was a bolt on patch job of a engine but enough to move down the freeway at 80 keeping cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7bAyu9Vgeo
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[oprn]

Learn to walk before entering a marathon. Getting a stock engine to run as VW intended should be prerequisite to building a custom performance one.

If you cannot master that... disappointment is sure to follow future upgrades.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[EVfun]

[sled]

yeah....my stock 64 with a 1600dp does 65-70 all day long and is a pleasure to drive at those speeds.

good tires and steering/suspension in good condition makes a big difference.
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drive your split.

[SGKent]

we had a stock 1960 1200 and it cruised at 60 mph (96 kph) all day with three people in it. We once got it up to barely over 100 mph on flat and level. Sounds like you have some work to do on your present engine and suspension etc.. My 1971 BUS 1600 would cruise all day at 65 - 70 mph (104-112 kph). Both were reliable and could undertake 6000 mile (9600 km) trips with no mechanical problems. Keep in mind that your car is 50 - 60 years old. You may need to go completely thru it to have it function like it was designed.
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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[redhot]

Using a very rapid input from a google search and Glenn's very good online available spreadsheet; did I miss something?

[oprn]

Looks about right. My Buggy with the famous 3.88 late Beetle (freeway flyer to the uninformed) final drive runs 2800 RPM at 60 mph. Not a huge difference for sure but the 1600 DP that was in it did struggle a bit on the hills.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[redhot]

Just to make sure; then ca. 4000 RPM is the assumed level at ca. 80 MPH, that is the maximum crusiing speed.

This is then based on memory the basic peak output at lowest gear for the 1500 engine with its default gearbox/tires? So basically running continously at peak output - while if engineering makes sense (static engines / generators etc. as references...).