| Am I delusional |
| Yes |
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15% |
[ 3 ] |
| No |
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84% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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EVfun 
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6204
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| redhot wrote: |
Using a very rapid input from a google search and Glenn's very good online available spreadsheet; did I miss something?
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If your ‘65 Bug is stock the gears will be slightly different. Third gear would be 1.32 and the ring and pinion will be 4.38. The one other thing is to check your tire size. Stock is 5.60-15 which is about 25.6 inches tall. The most common metric replacement I see on old Bugs is 165/80R15 which is 25.4 inches tall. Glenn listed the 155/80R15 tire that tends to be 24.8 inches tall. The tire differences slightly affect gearing, by about 3%. The ring and pinion difference is about 6%.
I expect to see a Bug with a 40 horse gearbox hit about 3100 rpm at 60 mph in 4th gear.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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redhot
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2005
Posts: 526
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6204
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2025 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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The gear ratios in a stock 1965 Beetle are below. Swapping engines without swapping transaxles is normal.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2149
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2025 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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I'm going to set the benchmark for unrealistic expectations. I want 150hp from a 1600 dual port. I keep hearing it can be done.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79680
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2025 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
I'm going to set the benchmark for unrealistic expectations. I want 150hp from a 1600 dual port. I keep hearing it can be done.
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Cheap - Fast - Reliable
Which two will you pick?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Rob Combs
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2020
Posts: 576
Location: South Bay LA, California
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2025 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| Already been done. And then some. Check out JPM... |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6256
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2025 12:42 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
I'm going to set the benchmark for unrealistic expectations. I want 150hp from a 1600 dual port. I keep hearing it can be done.
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really good heads, big cam, high compression. not that difficult
JPM is close to 200hp through stock valves in a 1584cc...
north of 200hp through 40x35.5 valves in a 1603cc
B. Hyerstay is a bit north of 300hp in a 1680cc...but that engine is another animal entirely. Yes, naturally aspirated, no boost or n2o
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drive your split. |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2149
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2025 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Dusty1 wrote: |
I'm going to set the benchmark for unrealistic expectations. I want 150hp from a 1600 dual port. I keep hearing it can be done.
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Cheap - Fast - Reliable
Which two will you pick? |
All three.
I don't expect someone else to build my motor. No one has the Harry Potter replica gnarly stick aka magic wand.
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1867
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2025 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| What is all this Kilometers and Kilograms nonsense? Can I get a Royale with Cheese with that? |
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MTT3107
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2021
Posts: 432
Location: KY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2025 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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A 1500 in good working order should be able to cruise ar 100 km/h all day long, no problem.
I don’t think a 1600 would be straining at all to do 105 km/h.
This picture is from my college days in Germany, car was a 1200 cc / 36 hp std beetle.
I went to college in Hamburg, and after graduating, got a job in Munich, ca. 800 km from Hamburg. Girlfriend stayed in Hamburg, so I made that trip twice a month for some time.
Beetle never missed a beat.
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7859
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2025 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| redhot wrote: |
Just to make sure; then ca. 4000 RPM is the assumed level at ca. 80 MPH, that is the maximum crusiing speed.
This is then based on memory the basic peak output at lowest gear for the 1500 engine with its default gearbox/tires? So basically running continously at peak output - while if engineering makes sense (static engines / generators etc. as references...). |
Yes, that is what they were originally designed to be able to do. Problem is that there are so many nanny stories around that people have such a skewed perception of what is for real and what is heresay that these nanny stories sort of takes the front seat. Next is the safety, - or lack thereof in a stock beetle at that speed. Again, the problem is mainly that many vehicles are not nearly aligned properly, next the tyres are prolly 10 years old or worse, last the shocks and bushings are shot. Such a vehicle is naturally a bit of a death trap to do that kind of stuff in.
I will say this much, that in modern traffic where many cars have 4-5 times better weight to hp ratio of a stock beetle you need to be aware when merging with traffic. But from there to saying that a (maintained) stock car is dangerous is b*llsh*t. We like better handling and braking, thats for sure, and especially if the power is enhanced I would say it is mandatory.
And yes, 150 hp NA from a 1600 is a walk in the park today. It can even be driveable, to the point of being a grocery getter. But "everybody" wants a 2275. and to an extent i understand it, because with parts prices and quality today there is not that much price difference between them if you need to buy new parts anyway.
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MTT3107
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2021
Posts: 432
Location: KY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2025 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| Quote: |
| Driving a bug stock height at 65mph is nuts. The front end feels like its trying to lift up and fly away. |
Strongly disagree…..
See pic in my previous post, the bug was rock solid at those speeds.
But you had to be careful in windy conditions, especially when the wind came from the side. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14862
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2025 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| Dauz wrote: |
| What is all this Kilometers and Kilograms nonsense? Can I get a Royale with Cheese with that? |
Oh, just universal standard the rest of the world understands and has been working with for a generation or three. Take no notice of us.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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Victor H
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 101
Location: Lexington, South Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2025 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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For basic transportation, nothing in a Beetle beats a stock motor.
Did many thousands of miles in a 1964 Beetle with stock 40 horse.
Would cruise at 60 mph with no effort, 65 mph was a bit of a push but it could do it.
Never got less than 30 MPG. Best all-time was 40 MPG driving 50-60 mph to Olympic Peninsula. Typically would average 35-37 MPG. Was great for a poor college student and only broke down once.
Friday two weeks before finals week, driving home it won't hardly run 50 mph. Check compression when I get home and cylinder $3 is really low. I know I need a valve job bad. Only need it to run two more weeks. The Friday before finals, on the way home it drops exhaust valve #3. Motor out Friday evening, takes all of 30 minutes. Saturday AM, go to Bow Wow VW parts shop. Parts guys says, "that's the cheapest rebuild I've seen." Spent all of $150 on all new bearings, new set of stock P&C and one cylinder head. Saturday. motor back together, Sunday break-in and running.
Monday, off to school on finals week like nothing happened. Will never forget that weekend. Ran another 30-40K miles with no problems until my mom gets rear ended in Seattle traffic in the rain, car is done/totalled (she was okay). |
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Bobs67vwagen
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 487
Location: Eastern north carolina
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2025 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| I agree with Victor h in regard to keeping an engine stock or close to stock if your goal is to use it as a daily driver. I do not remember ever feeling like the front of any of my bugs(swing or irs) were about to lift off at 65 mph. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3649
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2025 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| MTT3107 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Driving a bug stock height at 65mph is nuts. The front end feels like its trying to lift up and fly away. |
Strongly disagree…..
See pic in my previous post, the bug was rock solid at those speeds.
But you had to be careful in windy conditions, especially when the wind came from the side. |
It was rock solid as long as there is no wind  
Thats part of the unsafe aspect of stock height bugs. Wind, diesel truck gusts blowing them around, etc. Having to stop from freeway speed with all drums in a hurry is dangerous too. The folks that say they are totally safe.....great. I draw the line in a very different spot however. An adjustable beam, adjustable springplates, shocks and a set of disk brakes turn the car
into something usable and practical in modern traffic.
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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MTT3107
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2021
Posts: 432
Location: KY
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2025 3:59 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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Just posted this on another board :
As classic VW owners/drivers, we don’t need no ABS, stability control, airbags, seatbelts, etc….
We die like men !
But somehow I survived driving my bone stock 1200 cc bug with drum brakes, for 4 yrs, all over the place, in all kinds of weather… |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14862
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2025 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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Back in the late '60's, '70's and early '80's I daily drove Beetles starting with a '64 then '66, '68, '70 and finally a '71 SB. Never once did I feel like the front end was trying to lift off and fly on any of them.
The Beetles with the front torsion bar suspension were much more subject to wind and uneven road surfaces for sure but the Super Beetle was as stable at any speed as any other car on the road. It would do just sort of 90 mph on the flat with the stock 1600 DP too.
I will have to agree with jpaul on the fact that in today's traffic where everyone seems to be Hellbound to go everywhere at the highest speed possible the brakes on Beetles need an upgrade to come close to matching the stopping power of the traffic around you. Not all disc brake conversions are an upgrade though I found out!
As for the need to lower them... it's my opinion that the swing axle cars are the ones that applies to mostly. The IRS cars are pretty good in stock form. The Super Beetle is just fine as is at any legal posted speed today.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14862
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2025 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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| MTT3107 wrote: |
Just posted this on another board :
As classic VW owners/drivers, we don’t need no ABS, stability control, airbags, seatbelts, etc….
We die like men !
But somehow I survived driving my bone stock 1200 cc bug with drum brakes, for 4 yrs, all over the place, in all kinds of weather… |
True but back when I was driving my 1200, Alberta's fastest highway had just been rebuilt and upgraded from 45 mph to 65 mph daytime and 55 mph at night! We thought we had died and gone to racecar heaven!
It was a different world. Today if you are not going 80 mph you are a total A-hole and should have your license revoked!
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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MTT3107
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2021
Posts: 432
Location: KY
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2025 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Do I have unrealistic expectations? |
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True...
Driving the beetle I have now, '73 std, 1835 cc, I feel comfortable at 70-75 mph, and traffic blows by me....
Here in KY, speed limit is 65, some places 70 mph.
But most folks treat that as a mere suggestion, and go 80-85....
Which I do, too, in my everyday car..... |
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