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airheadgarage
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2019
Posts: 3
Location: California
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2025 5:52 pm Post subject: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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I've got a 1965 based fiberglass buggy. I'm trying to wire in a horn button onto my Grant steering wheel, but have found that my steering shaft (that the steering wheel is connected to) isn't hollow. This was surprising as I was planning to run the two wires for the horn button through this and then wire up from the bottom near the steering box.
I tried to drill out whatever is in there with a long drill bit but after some more measuring realized that its a few inches of material.
Any ideas of what else I can do to run these wires without them getting tangled up when turning the wheel? My plan B is to just mount the horn button on the wheel and then wire a different button onto the dash.
Thanks! |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20863
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2025 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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If you put a ground strap across the rag disk so the shaft itself is grounded, you can connect to one side of horn button, then run a single wire down the center of the shaft (from horn button) coming out just above the clamp (the slot) , and wrap several turn of wire loosely around shaft in a way it will have plenty of slack which ever way shaft turns and connect wire to horn relay or directly to horn.....
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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MrGoodtunes
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 1042
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2025 10:38 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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Mine's wired as Dale describes. It's a 1965 and does have a hollow steering shaft, into which I've clamp'd a solid extension:
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airheadgarage
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2019
Posts: 3
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2025 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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Thank you both for your replies.
My issue is that the solid bit within the shaft is about 12 inches from the bottom, and about 30 inches from the top with about 3-4 inches in between. So I cant run anything through the shaft itself.
This photo shows the approximate size and location of the obstruction inside the shaft, indicated by the red lines on this white plastic rod on either side of my hand holding it.
On the steering wheel side I cant run the wire outside of the shaft because there is no access through the turn signal lever housing/mechanism or through the bearings of the shaft housing.
Thanks for any further guidance you can give me here. |
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EVfun 
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6264
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2025 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| If you put a ground strap across the rag disk so the shaft itself is grounded, you can connect to one side of horn button, then run a single wire down the center of the shaft (from horn button) coming out just above the clamp (the slot) , and wrap several turn of wire loosely around shaft in a way it will have plenty of slack which ever way shaft turns and connect wire to horn relay or directly to horn..... |
With the '62-'67 steering column assembly if you ground the steering shaft across the rag joint and hook the horn wire up to the steering column connection under the gas tank the horn will sound all the time. The ground path will avoid the horn button all together, going from the column tube, through the bearing into the steering shaft, over the strap across the rag joint, and to ground via the steering box.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6264
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2025 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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| airheadgarage wrote: |
Thank you both for your replies.
My issue is that the solid bit within the shaft is about 12 inches from the bottom, and about 30 inches from the top with about 3-4 inches in between. So I cant run anything through the shaft itself.
This photo shows the approximate size and location of the obstruction inside the shaft, indicated by the red lines on this white plastic rod on either side of my hand holding it.
On the steering wheel side I cant run the wire outside of the shaft because there is no access through the turn signal lever housing/mechanism or through the bearings of the shaft housing.
Thanks for any further guidance you can give me here. |
That is not normal. I wonder if someone shortened your steering shaft with a cut and weld. It is not uncommon to put a section of 5/8 inch solid rod inside to support the shaft, keep it strait when welding and reinforce the welded area.
Oh, you said Grant steering wheel in your first post. If you have the Grant horn button used on the common 3 bolt Grant wheels you should use a relay with that horn button. It's not built to handle any current. You could always stick a starter button under the drivers seat and hook the start position on the ignition switch to the horn. Consider it an anti-theft device. 
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20863
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2025 6:49 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| Dale M. wrote: |
| If you put a ground strap across the rag disk so the shaft itself is grounded, you can connect to one side of horn button, then run a single wire down the center of the shaft (from horn button) coming out just above the clamp (the slot) , and wrap several turn of wire loosely around shaft in a way it will have plenty of slack which ever way shaft turns and connect wire to horn relay or directly to horn..... |
With the '62-'67 steering column assembly if you ground the steering shaft across the rag joint and hook the horn wire up to the steering column connection under the gas tank the horn will sound all the time. The ground path will avoid the horn button all together, going from the column tube, through the bearing into the steering shaft, over the strap across the rag joint, and to ground via the steering box. |
TRUE IF he were using stock steering wheel, but he is using a after market GRANT steering wheel and horn button is a bit different from stock.... And just a matter of fact I have Grant wheel with Grant horn button and the is the way it is.... The grant button has two screws on bottom as for contacts how would you wire it up?
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20863
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2025 6:58 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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I agree with EVfun the shaft has probably been modified, and to use a relay to to operate horn....
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6264
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2025 10:32 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| Dale M. wrote: |
| If you put a ground strap across the rag disk so the shaft itself is grounded, you can connect to one side of horn button, then run a single wire down the center of the shaft (from horn button) coming out just above the clamp (the slot) , and wrap several turn of wire loosely around shaft in a way it will have plenty of slack which ever way shaft turns and connect wire to horn relay or directly to horn..... |
With the '62-'67 steering column assembly if you ground the steering shaft across the rag joint and hook the horn wire up to the steering column connection under the gas tank the horn will sound all the time. The ground path will avoid the horn button all together, going from the column tube, through the bearing into the steering shaft, over the strap across the rag joint, and to ground via the steering box. |
TRUE IF he were using stock steering wheel, but he is using a after market GRANT steering wheel and horn button is a bit different from stock.... And just a matter of fact I have Grant wheel with Grant horn button and the is the way it is.... The grant button has two screws on bottom as for contacts how would you wire it up? |
I have used a 3 bolt Grant steering wheel and the horn button worked like the stock VW ('62-'67) type setup. Here is a good picture of the 3 bolt Grant horn button. That spring sits against the steering column nut and pushes the center of the horn button up. Pushing the horn button then causes the edge of the metal plate that is behind the phenolic plate to touch the steering wheel. The (tiny) wire is connected to the stock wire down the column when using a '62-'67 steering column.
I no longer use the Grant horn button, replacing it with this delete kit and a bullet horn button. (That button would be unsafe except that I have a very deep dish Grant steering wheel.)
I don't have and haven't seen a horn button with 2 terminals. My guess would be it's a self contained switch so I would wire one wire to a steering wheel bolt (so it is electrically connected to the steering shaft and column) and run the other wire down the center of the steering shaft to a bolt on the steering box tee of the rag joint coupler. How did you run the 2 wires?
If you hook the horn to the steering columm tube and steering shaft to the steering box side of the rag joint coupler the horn should sound any time it has power (provided your steering box is not loose). The all metal ball bearing assembly used from '62-'67 make the steering shaft and the steering column one electrically. That is not the case from '61 down, which did jumper the rag joint, and I have no idea how the '68 up stuff works.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20863
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2025 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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| Quote: |
TRUE IF he were using stock steering wheel, but he is using a aftermarket GRANT steering wheel and horn button is a bit different from stock.... And just a matter of fact I have Grant wheel with Grant horn button and the is the way it is.... The grant button has two screws on bottom as for contacts how would you wire it up? |
CORRECTION, I was mistaken, was thinking of something else, yes horn button for my Grant wheel is a spring clip and single push on connector so it's still single wire...
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6264
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2025 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| CORRECTION, I was mistaken, was thinking of something else, yes horn button for my Grant wheel is a spring clip and single push on connector so it's still single wire... |
To be fair, when I went looking for pictures of a Grant horn button (after all, I'm using OLD Grant parts) I did see a 2 terminal horn button for Grant 5 bolt steering wheels. So I took a WAG at how that would be wired. VW must has handled horn steering column wiring in the Beetle at least 4 different ways over the decades of production.
Oh, there is one other way I have seen the horn wired in a beach buggy. A couple different buggies over the years have used the high beam switch, that's part of the turn signal switch starting in '66, to operate a horn relay. In stock form that switch operates a low/high beam relay so it is pretty easy to swap that out for a horn relay. These buggies then used a floor mounted high beam switch like older cars. My understanding is that the horn button does not have to be in the middle of the steering wheel, it just has to be readily accessible while driving.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20863
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2025 7:14 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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Really what matters in the end it works to owners satisfaction.... After 65 years of driving I habitually like horn button in center of steering wheel and do want ever it take to make it work there...
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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MrGoodtunes
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 1042
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2025 7:53 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| Really what matters in the end it works to owners satisfaction.... After 65 years of driving I habitually like horn button in center of steering wheel and do want ever it take to make it work there... |
Exactly!
What I'd do in airheadgarage's situation is:
Pull steering shaft out from column tube
Drill 2 holes, 1 on either side of hollow blockage
Run a heavy gauge wire from top shaft opening & out thru upper hole
Run another wire from bottom shaft opening & out thru lower hole
Solder together (and insulate) the ends comming out thru holes |
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airheadgarage
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2019
Posts: 3
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2025 9:35 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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Thank you all for the help.
I figured drilling the shaft and running the wires around the blockage would be my only resolution. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20863
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2025 10:09 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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Be sure to tape the bypass to tube to prevent it from rubbing on outer column...
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6264
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2025 11:11 am Post subject: Re: 1965 Beetle Steering Shaft/Tube not hollow? |
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Well, '62-'67 Bug steering columns are not rare, you could get another and swap out the steering shaft. You may have to shorten the new one, but you could reinforce the cut and welded area with a section of 5/8 tube (instead of solid rod), or shorten it by duplicating the factory slot and notch further up.
I would be a little concerned about the horn wire chafing on the drilled holes, especially since you really cannot clean up the inside of them very well. If the insulation on that wire wears through the horn will not quit sounding until you unplug it!
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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