Poptop headliner installation went wrong

[sake]

Upholstering the headliner of the poptop unfortunately didn’t go as planned. The stretch headliner fabric didn’t stretch evenly around the roof vent opening, leaving too much material on one side.

I glued the fabric in four sections (about 1.9ft each) applying spray glue to both the foam and the roof, waited the recommended time, and then pressed it down with a roller. First three sections went perfectly but it went wrong on the last section where the skylight opening is. I had pre-cut the hole for the vent before gluing, which might have caused the problem.

Any idea what went wrong here or tips on how to fix or redo it properly?

[dobryan]

My experience is that the liner is laid on the surface and then pressed onto the surface from the middle out. No stretching except where there are bumps.

It looks to me like it was stretched where it didn’t need to be. I’d pull that whole section off and start over.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

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[SCM]

[E1]

This is one of those threads that encourages total guesswork on a task you’ve given tons of thought to — and very likely nobody else has.

But since we’re discussing it, I’d strip all this off with paint remover or heavy solvent, and learn if there’s any way to do the flocking like the factory did, which I imagine — again, a guess — is to apply a slow-drying adhesive that is allowed to become mostly dry, and then dusted liberally with whatever’s used in these cases.

Very Sorry this experiment went awry. It happens when all intents and efforts were to achieve the exact opposite, it’s no fun, and it happens to us all.

I very much suspect any attempt at making it “better” will be a painful reminder every single time you look at it from here on out. Take a break, and do it right when you feel like doing it.

Edit:
When Googling “ceiling flocking automotive” there are indeed solutions.
_________________
If ever twice as rich, we’re gettin’ a double-wide
’84 “Westfailure”/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s

AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans
The caveman’s first question to the headhunter: “Hey, you got any coffee?”

[MarkWard]

Gaining experience can be a bitch at times. Likely contact cement was used, that doesn’t really give you a second chance. I do recall one contact cement that gave you some working time but don’t recall the brand.

I like the idea of surgery to carefully remove the excess and butt the new edges. I’m lucky I can’t see the detail any longer with my eyes alone. Give it the 10 day rule. If after 10 days it still bothers you, rip it off, remove the glue, prep and redo. Otherwise plenty of other stuff to obsess over.

[vino de vano]

If the material does not react to lacquer thinner, you can wet the headliner where you need to lift it and it will soften the contact adhesive allowing it to be pulled up. I believe lacquer thinner will not stain your material and will evaporate completely. Do this outside with lots of ventilation. Ya I would probably have waited on cutting the hole. Good luck
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what a long strange trip it's been

[E1]

^^^ Could prove to be the best idea yet… second chances are great.
_________________
If ever twice as rich, we’re gettin’ a double-wide
’84 “Westfailure”/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s

AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans
The caveman’s first question to the headhunter: “Hey, you got any coffee?”

[sake]

I think my next step will be to completely remove the old headliner and clean off any remaining foam and glue. I’m planning to use acetone for that.

After that, I’ll redo the headliner installation from scratch. Are there any particular tricks or methods that professional upholsterers or headliner installers use to get the best results? Things like how to apply the material smoothly, or ways to avoid wrinkles and uneven stretch?

[E1]

Oh Man, totally your call!

But with the Westy ribs in mind, I wouldn’t re-attempt adapting another non-stock headliner in a million years!

By the way, I worked with harsh solvents for years, please be really careful with acetone… outdoors only (not even in a garage), soak and walk away, come back and check, repeat.

As mentioned above:
When Googling “ceiling flocking automotive” there are indeed solutions.
_________________
If ever twice as rich, we’re gettin’ a double-wide
’84 “Westfailure”/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s

AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans
The caveman’s first question to the headhunter: “Hey, you got any coffee?”

[dobryan]

[alaskadan]

As an upholsterer I find foam backed headliner easy to work with because it's so stretchy. Yes, pre cutting the hole is what got you into trouble. Lacquer thinner has no place in doing headliners or laminate work because it leaves a residue, yes it does. I'd worry about using it on fiberglass and soaking into it causing the headliner to release. In my early years of upholstery work I made the mistake of doing a final prep wipe down of a car roof interior with lacquer thinner. I knew better but was in a hurry and wanted to avoid a trip to town for denatured alchohol which is what you should always use prior to contact cement projects. I was using a high quality pressure pot spray glue. The install went fine. A month later the headliner was failing. This was foam backed headliner like you are using. In your pics the drivers front corner could've been pulled diagonally out and likely remove all the excess but your cutout wouldn't have been within the hole. Acetone for cleaning old glue won't leave a residue.

[borninabus]

this is a thing.
it's made specifically for dissolving contact adhesives.
it's tinted red so it may stain lighter colored fabrics, but i have used it to remove contact adhesive from my clothing and it did not discolor or stain the fabric.
it also does not harm paint or your fiberglass pop-top as lacquer thinner or acetone might.
if the red worries you, SEM makes the same stuff, but it's clear.

since you cut the hole in the wrong place, unfortunately you're going to have to start over.
cut the hole last thing.
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 93 Multivan 5cyl 5M/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[sake]

After some searching, I’ve learned a bit more. Removing the old foam residues from the old headliner can partly be done using a stiff brush attached to a cordless drill. Any remaining glue residue can be removed with thinner/acetone or by sanding I guess.

I believe there are two types of headliner fabric commonly used: flat knit and velour. The latter is my preference. There’s also headliner fabric with a stitching on the foam, makes it more forgiving; it can be easily pulled loose to correct its position during installation.

This video also has some good tips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ_bICRvh-Y

This upholsterer basically lays the fabric onto the surface first and then presses the shapes into the cloth.

[dobryan]

[Franklinstower]

Another option-I used boat hull liner made from polypropylene. It won't mold. Has minimal stretch, but enough to go over the humps of the top. It was an easy two person install. Search the threads.

_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB

[sake]

Started today by pulling off the old headliner. Then I removed the glue residue with acetone. Tomorrow I’ll take it outside and continue working on it.

After that, I’ll choose a nice new headliner to install.

[sake]

Update

So today I finished cleaning the rest of the pop-top and removed all the final glue residue. I used white spirit and a scraper which worked out pretty well.
I also bought a nice foam-backed suede headliner, which I really like.

I tried to fit it today, but in the end I didn’t dare to glue it in yet... I kept doubting where to start and which section to do first so I decided to wait. I’m even considering having an upholsterer do it instead.

[alaskadan]

You almost had it on the last try. Being told to lay it in there and just start gluing it down is bad advice IMHO. That's not what I was taught in upholstery school 35 years ago. Not alot of foam backed headliners back then but the concept is the same. If it worked for people here im glad. I won't go into how you apply glue and whatnot. Basic premise is affix it in the centers of the front, back and sides while stretching it a bit. How much? Front to back maybe 6 inches, side to side maybe 2 to 3 inches. It will be suspended over the roof. Start in the center sticking it down along the middle Front to back. Work your way outward and toward the sides doing quarters at a time while pulling the corners outward diagonally. Not stretching it is what will cause trouble.

[sake]

So today i started the job again, this time i worked in 3 parts. Took me around 3 hours (including preparation etc.). Pretty happy with the result. I like the 'alcantra' look. The foam is about 4 mm thick so cutting the sides was a tricky job. There’s a bit of space left on the side but i think the gap will be sealed by the canvas + tacking strip.

Still several things to do before i can mount the poptop hardware:

- I need to cut out the skylight opening cleanly. What’s the best way to do that? Utility knife from the in- or outside, cutting along the edges of the opening? I think the skylight seal comes over the headliner.

- Also does anyone know the best way to make clean holes in the headliner for the bolts of the pop-top hardware?

[E1]

Goodonya for sticking this out, it took some serious Hutzpah to try it again — and it appears you nailed it!
_________________
If ever twice as rich, we’re gettin’ a double-wide
’84 “Westfailure”/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s

AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans
The caveman’s first question to the headhunter: “Hey, you got any coffee?”