Split Buyers Guide - What to look for

[Splitdog]

[Yustrn]

[eh0s]

Better!

I wouldn't hack a perfectly good split roof and put in a 3 fold. Besides, I don't mind having ragtop envy, it's all part of the hobby. ('Window envy' when it comes to buses..)
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Cootra

[Envious]

The guy bumped our appointment on Friday and rescheduled until today. Now that I've stopped crying like a baby, I thought I'd share some pics of the car. I don't even know where to start. This guys house was crazy. He had about 6 cars in this garage including a 71 ghia with 30,000 miles on the clock, a complete brand new Puma body still on a skid with Russian writing on it?!?, a couple 3 wheeled Vespas, etc, etc, etc. Quite the spot.

The split windows has so much potential but I'm not sure it's worth the journey. The body is exceptional. No evidence of repair anywhere on the car although I think it's safe to say it's been painted somewhere along the line The heater channels are perfect, floors have been patched. The interior is a train wreck.

It's missing all the dash parts, semiphores, heart tail lights, correct wheels, seats and it has the wrong hood on it and bumpers on it.

It's hard to walk away if the price was right but what's the right price. I've seen some compete cars for $10,000 on this site. Am I better off starting with something like that?

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71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388225

[Wiggy]

[Envious]

It started out a little ugly at $15,000 USD The guy just didn't have a clue. I brought a binder full of ads and auctions for complete cars, some better than others, and I think we decided that the car could have been in the $9000 range if complete.

After that we flipped through my binder of parts classifieds and showed him the price of interior seats, tail lights, dash parts, semiphores, and hoods. He was surprised to say the least. He left it for me to make an offer that I felt was fair. I can't imagine paying any more than $2000 for it.
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71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388225

[Wiggy]

Damn! Looking at those pics, that car has a lot of issues. Those aprons obvoiusly have been replaced. That always scares me.
_________________
Kevin "Wiggy"

My 58 Ghia Vert

My 51 Split 11G

My 57 Deluxe

My 56 Oval

[Envious]

The rear is obviously wrong but the front spare tire well was prestine. No rust, no wrinkles.
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388225

[johnshenry]

Sounds like the seller is a dreamer. If you want the car, make him YOUR best offer, and walk. Ask him if he wants your number to call you if he decides to take it, but he probably won't.

If he puts it up on the samba, we'll all e-mail him and offer $2000.
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[Envious]

Don't forget we're talking Canadian funds here as well.
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388225

[eh0s]

[eh0s]

Ok, just to back up my point. If you can deduct money from 9K to come up with a 2K split. I say add up the parts that are there to come up with a price.

Shell - $2000 (there's one in the classified in much worse shape so..)
Ribbed doors - $400 (ha ha, good luck trying to buy ribbed doors for that much).
Regulators - $200 (half price!)
Decklid (is it a split lid?) - $200 (even if it's a regular W).
Pan - $500 (again, good luck finding one for this price)
Fenders - Are the og? ($1500 if they are) I will assume no and say $200
Hood - OG? (I say no, $100)
Steering wheel + button $100
Pods + misc = $200
Crotch coolers = $300
Glass = $100
Shifter + misc = $100 (I'll throw in seats, carpet etc etc).

So that's not even counting the trans, engine, wheels and about a 100 other little parts (semaphores?), glove boxes, trim etc etc.

Grand total (at cheap cheap prices) = $4300

If you could get it for $2000 you could easily part it out and make double your money (which would be a real shame!).
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Cootra

[Envious]

[thebucket]

[Brezelwerks]

While I've got many opinions in this area than I could possibly cover here, there are some basic questions to ask first in these situations. Real questions first because there are just too many cars like this that tend to stay that way for years if not decades, they get passed around and around and get this bad reputation along the way (happens here all the time), all were bought with good intentions of course but unless there are funds, resources, connections, etc., etc., a car like this usually stays that way, and the person who wanted one to begin with often ends up too discouraged to own a split ever, have seen it happen countless times, and this is what I'd like to help prevent.

Next, the question is what do you really want in and (to do) with finding a split first, whats the goal? Something like this frankensplit is going to take some serious time and cash to make it anywhere near accurate. What usually happens are dozens of compromises along the way just to get the car on the road and driveable if and when you can find parts, and thousands and thousands of dollars later you end up with the "classic driver" at best (if its your first split), and worse you now are in a deeper cash hole than you started with. Also don't forget first before you do this to add at least 500 minutes a month to your cell phone and make sure you upgrade to a nice broadband connection.

Now, while I hate to say it since it sounds discouraging, many people want to own a split, but few have the funds and resources to achieve what they want or visualize having, at least in the time frame they are imagining. Its understandable, many of us started out this way, and its never easy nomatter how much cash you have, and it can take years to get there, but eventually somewhere down what is usually a longer road than you want, you get a decent car you are proud to own.

So, if the goal is to own an average split, the question is then really how to do go about it, by rescuing barn finds? Well, if you have your own shop, serious tools to do most of your own work, the space, the knowledge, skills, local resources, etc., and you have a nice lean spending budget of about $20K to spend over a few years, then go for it. But the only folks that I know that mostly succeed doing it this way are the folks that have done at least one early car like this before and they are absolutely convinced (including their wife or girlfriend) they can and will love every minute of doing it again period.

So, if thats not at least 80% of who you are, its best to just add years to your life and your marriage and buy a decent relatively accurate split that you can drive this summer for $12-15K, even if you have to take a $10K loan to pay for it, you'll still save thousands, plus you'll likely stay married (which will also save you even more thousands if not 10's of thousands). After all is said and done, just getting one done from someone who has already put the time in, and has enjoyed for the time they wanted, and is now passing it along to you, by far, and I mean really far, is the way to go. If you want to make the car "yours", buy a few accessories and decorate, and voila its "yours".

Therefore, if your're not in a rush, and while people always say things like "don't part it out", if you want a split, and you stumble on something like this meantime out in the backwoods where you live, and you have a nice big space on your front lawn that you are dying to decorate, buy this one and play Martha Stewart, its an opportunity to make money to go and get what you really want. So just part the damn thing out like all the other shops and restorers have been doing for years and make money on the deal. Plus you help to make other sad split project owners by selling them the parts they need and have been looking for forever. Haste makes waste, use wisdom to your advantage, the "long view" as the Chinese say, save your money during all this time and wait for the right one to come along and it will, it always does.

Gary

[Envious]

Brezelwerks,

I appreciate your opinions on this. The reality is though, there are no qualifications to owning these or any other car. I don't need to fill out an application, submit full financial disclosure, or declare my intentions to anyone. All I have to do is write the cheque to cover the purchase and transfer the ownership. What I do with it after that is up to me whether others approve or not. It's none of their business really.

Your post, whether it was your intention or not, came off as "step aside junior and let someone who knows what their doing build you a car so we can make sure it's done correctly"

I would never let any of my cars get in the way of my wife or family. My cars, along with my boats and motorcycles, are toys. I enjoy my time driving them, working on them, and researching them. If I ever thought for a moment my hobbies were eating into family resources, they'd be gone by the end of the week.

When I started this thread, I wasn't looking for anyone's approval, I was just hoping people would pass along some advice about what to look and what to avoid based on their experiences with these cars. As a younger collector, I know I have a lot to learn. My only qualification for owning a split window beetle is my passion for driving and restoring these cars.
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388225

[eh0s]

[Envious]

[Wiggy]

I think Gary was trying to be helpful.
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Kevin "Wiggy"

My 58 Ghia Vert

My 51 Split 11G

My 57 Deluxe

My 56 Oval

[Envious]