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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Issaquah, WA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: Noisy fuel pump advice/experiences |
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Hi everyone,
I'm trying to correct a running problem on an 89 Vanagon, and I suspect it has fuel delivery blockage between the gas tank and the fuel pump. The fuel pump was noisy, so a new one was installed and still makes the same buzzing noise.
Has anyone experienced fuel line blockage on Vanagons that have been sitting for a while, where rust has possibly formed in the tank? I was envisioning this van having one of those square prefilters, and I was thinking this filter was just clogged. However, it looks like the 2.1 vans did away with the prefilter. There's just a fuel line going from the tank exit to the pump.
Any advice or experiences you could share would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
David |
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Waldemar Sikorski
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 573
Location: EU
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| You can put the prefilter. Drive for a while and see what comes out. |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| what happens if you get the pump to draw fuel out of a 5 gallon can of gas? If the pump quiets down, that would really lead you to a rusty tank. |
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bforst
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Gibsons. BC Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: Noisy fuel pump |
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I am having the buzzy fuel pump problem with some driveability problems. I have come to the conclusion that it is not a defective fuel pump, nor a blockage. It is something in the FI system.
How did you finally solve your noisy fuel pump? |
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Dogpilot
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2005
Posts: 4205
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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I would do the fuel pressure and pressure hold tests to check your fuel pressure regulator. It can also make strange things happen in the pressurized part of the fuel system.
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G |
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ValleyHappy
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Walla Walla, WA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: |
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I recently went through this. I had a noisy pump that failed. Bought a new pump. It was noisy as a well, not as loud. It stayed this way until I topped off with fuel and dry gas. Quiet ever since. My problem arrived with winter so I believe it was an ice/moisture problem.
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09 Suzuki SX-4 Crossover |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4570
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:14 am Post subject: |
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I think there should be a sticky for this. I've had noisy fuel pumps on 2.1's and always found the inlet screen of the pump was blocked with rust chips. I'd pull the front hose off, holding a white napkin under the pump inlet. then flush out the inlet with a blast from Brakleen with a straw on it, all the while, catching the chips with the napkin. That way you can see the culprits! then I Put on a pre-filter, just a 3/8" in and out filter I bought from NAPA. I periodically took it off and back flused it into a napkin. after about a month, maybe 10 flushes, it was staying clean.
In about 25 years of driving Vw's with these pumps (and I have 6 of them right now!) I have never had a pump fail. I also do not leave it making noise. If it is making noise, it is cavitating. And I fix it. It needs fuel flow to keep the motor cool.
somebody said that is the "death rattle" of the fuel pump. Good term!
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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bucko
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Coppell, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Great advice 69doublecab.
There's no way the engineers designed a system to "make noise" that was alright to ignore. I always use the simple logic of how a vehicle ran when new; then use that as my train of thought when performing a repair.
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia
Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181 |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4570
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| bucko wrote: |
Great advice 69doublecab.
There's no way the engineers designed a system to "make noise" that was alright to ignore. I always use the simple logic of how a vehicle ran when new; then use that as my train of thought when performing a repair. |
WOW! That should be so obvious that it is unquestioned, yet, I seldom see it in black and white.
I remember when I got my first type 2 driving. It was a 1976 buw with rather low miles that had a bad engine fire. The first time I drove it, it was on some worn out old passenger car tires. It was absolutely scarey. I remember thinking: If these things drove like this when they were new, they would not have sold a single one. (New reinforced tires and shocks and it did drive like new!)
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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pushkick
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007
Posts: 1366
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: fuel pump issues |
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| i had similar problems recently and my issues were with the gas tank having rust in it. this caused the fuel filter to clog caused problems with the fuel pressure regulator. the problem is that when i replaced the tank the new tank was not the same size outlet as the old one. old outlet was 11mm and new tank was 7mm. but the entrance to the pump was 11mm. i tried using an adapter but this caused cavitation. i had to move the adapter as close to the tank as possible. this seemed to help. but still have some noise. |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4570
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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The factory square plastic filter, used from 1975 till 1985 uses a 7mm inlet and 11mm outlet. Perfect for what you need. Actually, the tank you got is for 1980-85. that is why it doesn't have an 11mm outlet.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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pushkick
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007
Posts: 1366
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: fuel pump issues |
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| Quote: |
The factory square plastic filter, used from 1975 till 1985 uses a 7mm inlet and 11mm outlet. Perfect for what you need. Actually, the tank you got is for 1980-85. that is why it doesn't have an 11mm outlet.
Al |
yes i know that but busdepot wouldnt correct their mistake and just said that i didnt need the 11mm tank outlet. ron salamon (the owner) wouldnt correct the problem he just blamed it on volkwagen. actually their was a recall due to the square plastic filter and that is why it was removed. what can you do but report it to the bbb. he has got his money that is all they care about. i later found this site to purchase tanks and at a better pricehttp://discountgastanks.com/search/?/VOLKSWAGEN |
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pushkick
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007
Posts: 1366
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pushkick
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007
Posts: 1366
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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look at this information by email
RE: Fuel pump specs
From: Bus Depot Customer Service ([email protected])
Sent: Wed 10/31/07 5:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Bruce,
You do not seem to be following me, so I will try to make it as clear as I possibly can.
It is not me whom you are second-guessing ... it is Volkswagen themselves. To repeat ... It is not the Bus Depot saying that this configuration (a 7mm outlet on the tank, to a 7-11 mm adapter/filter, to a pump with an 11 mm input) is fine - it's VOLKSWAGEN THEMSELVES. Please feel free to ask other Vanagon owners if they have a square plastic filter just like yours between their tank and their pump (which has a 7mm inlet and 11 mm outlet). You will find that many, many do, because it is a FACTORY setup.
The Samba forum is full of misinformation by well meaning individuals. Tencentlife may know engines well, but the fuel pump he's referring to (an "early" style Vanagon fuel pump with a 7 mm inlet) NEVER EXISTED! The Vanagons have always used pumps with 11 mm inlets, even though most tanks had 7 mm outlets. How did they get from 7mm to 11 mm? On most Vanagons (as factory-provided), the very filter we sent you. Don't believe me? Search the net yourself for an "early" Vanagon fuel pump that differs from the late one. Bosch may be providing you with general rule-of-thumb info on their pumps, but this, too, does not change the fact that VW DESIGNED THE VANAGON TO BE FUNCTIONAL WITH A 7MM TANK OUTPUT AND AN 11 MM PUMP INLET.
To repeat, this is a FACTORY CONFIGURATION. I'm sorry if you do not believe it can possibly work, but hundreds of thousands of Vanagons prove otherwise. If it did not work, 95% of the Vanagons on the road would never have run from the day they left the factory using the IDENTICAL configuration to the one you have now. So if you would like to re-engineer the Vanagon, that is fine, but it is not necessary. Whatever problem you may be having, it is NOT because your tank has a 7mm outlet. The gravity fed 7mm outlet far exceeds the needs of the Vanagon's fuel delivery system, when used in conjunction with a stock fuel pump with an 11 mm inlet. That is not a matter of opinion. It is a verifiable fact. You need to look elsewhere for the key to your problem or you will not resolve it.
- Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot, Inc.
www.busdepot.com
(215) 234-VWVW
_____________________________________________
Toll-Free for Orders by PART # : 1-866-BUS-DEPOT
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From: The Bus Depot - Customer Service [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: FW: Fuel pump specs
Ron,
What is going on with this?
Dan
Fred Vandegrift
The Bus Depot Inc.
215-234-VWVW
www.busdepot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: bruce shaneyfelt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:24 PM
To: Bus Depot Customer Service
Subject: FW: Fuel pump specs
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Subject: RE: Fuel pump specs
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:04:40 -0500
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
The inlet of the fuel pump is generally going to be larger than the output. This is because the fuel is being drawn in by the pump and not under pressure. This requires more area to feed the pump.
Restricting the flow of fuel to the pump may shorten the life of the pump and increase risk of cavitation. It is recommended to use the same diameter feed line to the inlet of the pump for maximum performance and efficiency.
Adam Garberg
Bosch Technical Specialist
1-800-521-5462
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From: bruce shaneyfelt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:09 PM
To: Adam Garberg
Subject: RE: Fuel pump specs
i have a technical question about this pump why does bosch make the inlet size 12 mm. second if i had a 7 mm oulet pipe on my gas tank and i hook up a 7mm hose to a 12 mm hose (with a adapter)then to the pump would that be a problem. would this set up cause any problems in your opinion?
thanks
bruce
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Subject: RE: Fuel pump specs
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:15:15 -0500
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
8mm outlet
12mm inlet
Adam Garberg
Bosch Technical Specialist
1-800-521-5462
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From: bruce shaneyfelt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:44 PM
To: Adam Garberg; cindy merritt
Subject: RE: Fuel pump specs
what are the inlet and oulet orifices (pipes) sizes on this pump?
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Subject: Fuel pump specs
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:25:19 -0500
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Fuel pump 69414.
Flow : 130-195 L/Hour
Nominal pressure : 300kPa
Nominal Voltage : 12V
Power Condumption : 6.5A
Deadhead pressure : 800kPa
If you need anything else, let me know.
Adam Garberg
Bosch Technical Specialist
1-800-521-5462 |
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Wilsons
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Jackson, WY
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| we also have a noisy new pump now i wonder when hooing it back up electrically red wire to the + and brown wire to the other post on the pump will see about rust thanks 8 |
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Stevekirk
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2018
Posts: 17
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Noisy fuel pump advice/experiences |
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So I had been having the noisy fuel pump syndrome off and on for the past few months then it started doing it all the Tim. I replaced the fuel pump ( not necessarily thinking for sure it was bad but I’ve only had the van for a few months) and after installing it was still loud. I do not have the pre filter but the 7 to 12 mm splice piece. I moved the splice to within one inch of the fuel tank and moved the pump as close to the tank as I could. Also the 7 to 12 mm connection piece had a small lip inside that I drilled out.
After these modifications the pump is quiet! |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4570
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Noisy fuel pump advice/experiences |
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| Stevekirk wrote: |
So I had been having the noisy fuel pump syndrome off and on for the past few months then it started doing it all the Tim. I replaced the fuel pump ( not necessarily thinking for sure it was bad but I’ve only had the van for a few months) and after installing it was still loud. I do not have the pre filter but the 7 to 12 mm splice piece. I moved the splice to within one inch of the fuel tank and moved the pump as close to the tank as I could. Also the 7 to 12 mm connection piece had a small lip inside that I drilled out.
After these modifications the pump is quiet! |
Good to know, but I would NEVER run such a pump without a pre filter. If you have the earlier tank, the square Bosch type filter is perfect. VERY early tanks apparently had a sock filter on the inlet, inside the tank. On my 1980, I had to stick a piece of coat hanger wire up the outlet to break up the logjam of rust. I think I was destroying the filter, but it was 20+ years ago. That same tank was later SOLDERED by a radiator shop which bought e another 10 years, but now it has a later tank in it.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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