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Adding modern scoop for split bus engine bay cooling / pres.
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don.ville
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Adding modern scoop for split bus engine bay cooling / pres. Reply with quote

There have been other posts about the engine bay scoops, and all that jazz in the "big CC running hot" thread.
I decided to make some engine scoops, but not anything that you can see from outside.....

ALL for less than $20 in parts from Home Depot hardware store.

2 Rain gutter elbows ( I did not use the middle piece)
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Air conditioner register filters about $3 for 12
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Gutter Exit Flange
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Removed engine for replacing my transmission input shaft seal, then:

Took my jigsaw and cut the firewall tin (not OG tin)
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Installed the filter material over the flange
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Installed first elbow
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Secured some screen over the inlet with screws
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Installed engine

Attached a bracket to the frame horns without drilling
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Secured the exit gutter piece to the bracket
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See routing of the two pieces
Will not work with heat exchanger boxes in place of course
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View from inside engine bay
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View from underneath bus looking to rear:
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Soon as I finish getting the bus back together, I will post results of my air pressure tests with aquarium tubing.
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Das Dragon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding modern scoop for split bus engine bay cooling / p Reply with quote

don.ville wrote:
There have been other posts about the engine bay scoops, and all that jazz in the "big CC running hot" thread.
I decided to make some engine scoops, but not anything that you can see from outside.....

ALL for less than $20 in parts from Home Depot hardware store.


Soon as I finish getting the bus back together, I will post results of my air pressure tests with aquarium tubing.


That screen will block 1/2 of the incoming air and you need a scoop at the end to ram more air in also.
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Last edited by Das Dragon on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Slowlow Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be sure to post up your results!!

Oh and Im completely glad that the post above me found it necessary to quote all two dozen pics, Thanks. I definately didnt see them the first time that I scrolled through and read all the details!
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Das Dragon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the scoop I have been running for 7 yrs now. Four inch dryer hose with a 5" X 8" scoop.
I have never got around to testing it because I've never run hot.
[edit] sorry about all the repeat pics Rolling Eyes

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DB3 said:
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*********'s constant over-estimation of his own importance never ceases to amaze me."

With *****, "Bullshit Happens"!


Last edited by Das Dragon on Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Culito
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing @ Slowlow!

I don't think the screen will block much air, unless it gets plugged up with debris. And the inlet is facing forward, so it will act as a scoop.

It's kinda ghetto, but hey, if it works...
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Das Dragon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Culito wrote:
Laughing @ Slowlow!

I don't think the screen will block much air, unless it gets plugged up with debris. And the inlet is facing forward, so it will act as a scoop.

It's kinda ghetto, but hey, if it works...


I did some testing on my set up with a fan blowing under the bus in the drive way and found very little air moving through without an added scoop. I also had a screen on mine and it restricted the air movement.
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DB3 said:
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*********'s constant over-estimation of his own importance never ceases to amaze me."

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don.ville
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding modern scoop for split bus engine bay cooling / p Reply with quote

Das Dragon wrote:

That screen will block 1/2 of the incoming air and you need a scoop at the end to ram more air in also.


Thanks,
Yeah, I am willing to compromise. Not ready to be a trash scoop and have to fish out garbage bags, paper and trash....

We will see, as long as I have positive pressure in the engine compartment, I am good. Not trying to blow air out the vents.
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don.ville
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Culito wrote:
Laughing @ Slowlow!

I don't think the screen will block much air, unless it gets plugged up with debris. And the inlet is facing forward, so it will act as a scoop.

It's kinda ghetto, but hey, if it works...


I was going for the subtle ghetto look if you know what I mean. Wink

I like that mine is hardly visible from either end....
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Das Dragon, that screen you are using (the expanded metal) will definitely cut down on air flow cuz of all that flat surface area.

Aneewaaay, the important thing is that you don' t run hot....

I live in Florida, and want to drive my bus in the hottest summer, with all the family, and a whole lotta luggage, and not overheat, and not have my decklid propped open, and not have scoops on the side, and not have an external oil cooler, and not remove the firewall tin, etc...
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Das Dragon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don.ville wrote:
Culito wrote:
Laughing @ Slowlow!

I don't think the screen will block much air, unless it gets plugged up with debris. And the inlet is facing forward, so it will act as a scoop.

It's kinda ghetto, but hey, if it works...


I was going for the subtle ghetto look if you know what I mean. Wink

I like that mine is hardly visible from either end....

That screen you are using (the expanded metal) will definitely cut down on air flow cuz of all that flat surface area.

Aneewaaay, the important thing is that you don' t run hot....

I live in Florida, and want to drive my bus in the hottest summer, with all the family, and a whole lotta luggage, and not overheat, and not have my decklid propped open, and not have scoops on the side, and not have an external oil cooler, and not remove the firewall tin, etc...


I'm with you all the way, I use my bus exactly like you! I live in Lake Havasu AZ where 115 is our normal summer temps. My bus is a '61 Westy and I tow a trailer to campouts all over the southwest. 2017 and a freeway flier and cruise at 65-70 mph.

I have tested my scoop with and without 'screen' and could not detect a difference.

I'm sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers, I was just trying to help.

If you have a floor fan try and do some testing in your driveway.

Lou
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DB3 said:
"Awesome!!!
*********'s constant over-estimation of his own importance never ceases to amaze me."

With *****, "Bullshit Happens"!
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don.ville
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Das Dragon wrote:

I'm with you all the way, I use my bus exactly like you! ...
If you have a floor fan try and do some testing in your driveway.

Lou


Here, here....

I don't have a floor fan that can blow 65+MPH Shocked
Maybe my leaf blower?
Who cares...if the tubing pressure test shows I am not in a vacuum, then mission accomplished!
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Cptn. Calzone
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Air scoop Reply with quote

I think this is a great way to run cooler.I have an ide for a real air filter in the scoop< get a small K$N square filter, use some ceiling track from accoustical clg, good and cheap, it is a 90deg. so the flar filter will rest against it real good. Fashion a scoop out of aluminum with the filter and frame in it, attach to a hose through the breast plate/firewall,use some of the VW silver heater hose, , and dump this all in front of the fan.I am working up the scoop now and I will post when complete.This will go into my 67SC project while the motor is out,soon to go into the bay.
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Das Dragon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don.ville wrote:
Das Dragon wrote:

I'm with you all the way, I use my bus exactly like you! ...
If you have a floor fan try and do some testing in your driveway.

Lou


Here, here....

I don't have a floor fan that can blow 65+MPH Shocked
Maybe my leaf blower?
Who cares...if the tubing pressure test shows I am not in a vacuum, then mission accomplished!


See us folks out in the dry arid desert southwest have 'swamp coolers' that blow a whole heck of a lot of air. I see your point in not having a 65 mph floor fan! lol

Good luck in your testing, I need to do that to mine also. I have a cover for the scoop that I could use while testing.
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my65vert
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in florida, drive my bus daily with a stock 1500 with all the correct factory tin, timed properly, carb adjusted properly, correct oil level, engine nice and clean nothing else added and it runs just fine and cool.

I can drive for 6 hours heading south and can still hold the dipstick with no problem. Not over hot at all.

a properly maintained and cared for stock engine and bus will run just fine and cool with no extra gadgets on it.
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don.ville
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my65vert wrote:
I live in florida, drive my bus daily with a stock 1500


Cool.
True, stock always works.

Mine isn't stock.
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my65vert wrote:
.. with a stock 1500 with all the correct factory tin...


A stock 1500 fan is a "skinny" fan that the factory designed for use with the stock engine vents. When you upgrade your cooling to a 72 and later dog house shround/tin/fan you need more air flow into the engine compartment that the stock split vents cant keep up with.

My all stock 1600SP with early fan runs cool, but my stock 1600DP with late cooling runs a bit hotter in the same bus.
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don.ville
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don.ville wrote:
OK, bus is out of the garage now....

Bought this for $4
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Did this:
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The hole was already there....
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Got baby's glass bottle filled with water (blue tape to avoid spills)
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Revved it to 3K while stopped, see the water column go high...
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Drove up to 45mph...
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positive pressure when at speed. Good Smile
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Then here is the kicker.....
I was ready to close the book on the testing, then...I realised that with the windows open, the water column moves higher, and with the safari windows open, even higher water column..... Think

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Derek Cobb
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you need to have your test rig out of the vehicle. All you are doing is comparing the air pressure inside the engine compartment with the air pressure inside the passenger compartment.
Your bottle needs to be in the ambiant air that the bus will be traveling through, and also out of the turbulent, moving air.
I suppose you could block your engine downspout vent and record the difference at given speeds, then repeat with the vent open. You might get a better idea of what's happening with that type of data.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:15 am    Post subject: ram air cooling ducts Reply with quote

I am currently restoring my '67 11 window. I am wondering if anyone has used this cooling idea? Using the existing heater tube (for front heat) and a intake placed just below the front bumper to use the high pressure area at the front of the bus to force air into the engine compartment. A long thin intake (24" x 2") should help keep a fair amount of air moving through the compartment at 50mph.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Gordo.
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slow36hp
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it will definately be cooler in the bus without that heat duct.all this seems to be alot of thought into fixing something that isnt broken. if you are running hot fix your motor.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not so much that something is broken and needs to be fixed , more that there is room for improvements that were not in the original design ( for the temperatures of West Germany ).
Take a look at what the first bolt-on engine improvements are any small displacement engines (read: ricer)... a cold air intake. So keeping the engine compartment cool not only has a bonus in the power dept. but it will help any cooling issues that may arise.
I don't see a problem with having too much cool air...let the thermostat (bellows) do it's job. Also, If i am running a larger engine with a porsche style fan (please don't start any discussion on the fan stuff...there is already a two day read thread here somewhere) the engine is already drawing more air than the compartment was designed to flow. my van also has a louvered deck lid only worsening the air flow problem because the louveres now expose the upper engine compartment to the vaccuumous space behind the flying loaf of bread.

I plan to run my van only during the summers after restoration as I don't want to subject it to all the nasty road chemicals and grime, so I will not be needing the heater. It never put out enough heat to be of any help in a Canadian winter anyways.

thanks for the input, I still think it's not a bad idea. Especially since anything that is done can always be undone if it didn't work.

Gordo.
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