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Toby from MO
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Imperial, MO
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 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: Wire Gauge…Question |
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I’m rewiring my rail this winter. My wiring diagram is a “work in progress”, being created by myself. That said, I have a few questions regarding wire gauge needed. At this point I’m assuming 10ga, 12ga & 16ga will be my primary wire sizes…no idea what use for battery cables. Also, like to know whether I should consider using 14ga in place of 16ga.
I was planning to use 12ga from “IGN ON” to fuse block. From the fuse block I would continue 12ga for the head lights, horn and ignition coil. From the fuse block I would continue 14/16ga for all other misc items such as gauges, senders, indicators, turn signal light, brake lights, etc…
I’m unclear from:
- Battery ground (-) to frame
- Battery power (+) to starter
- Ignition switch to starter
- Alternator to battery
- Battery to fuse to ignition switch
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Toby
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Mal evolent
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Joined: March 31, 2009
Posts: 2923
Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
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Toby from MO
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Imperial, MO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the links...I'll check'em out.
I have the brake lights on the ignition side due to having brake line lock. If the switch is on the battery side the lights are on any time the lock is set. |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20802
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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And....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=344781
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20802
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Toby from MO wrote: |
Thanks for the links...I'll check'em out.
I have the brake lights on the ignition side due to having brake line lock. If the switch is on the battery side the lights are on any time the lock is set. |
Then its wired wrong........
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Toby from MO
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Imperial, MO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| Toby from MO wrote: |
Thanks for the links...I'll check'em out.
I have the brake lights on the ignition side due to having brake line lock. If the switch is on the battery side the lights are on any time the lock is set. |
Then its wired wrong........
Dale |
What's wired wrong?
The line lock is simply set by pressing brake pedal...then set the lock. It holds line pressure, not allowing pads to release. If the lights are wired on the battery side (always hot) the brakes lights would be on.
Am I missing something? Is there a different way?
Thanks, Toby |
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olmer2
Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2009
Posts: 781
Location: chattanooga TN
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Toby from MO wrote: |
What's wired wrong?
The line lock is simply set by pressing brake pedal...then set the lock. It holds line pressure, not allowing pads to release. If the lights are wired on the battery side (always hot) the brakes lights would be on.
Am I missing something? Is there a different way?
Thanks, Toby |
Is your pressure switch mounted before or after the line lock? If it's mounted before, it should not turn on the lights. If they are still on, the switch may be bad. If you have it after the lock, just move it the the front side and you will be able to wire it properly. |
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ZARJDR
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Joined: October 27, 2008
Posts: 1039
Location: Eureka, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Do you have Hibbard's book? If so you should consider wiring in a ford solenoid to send power to starter circuit. I ran one 10 ga wire to my distribution panel for all my elec. My starter switch only has 16 ga wire as this is signal only for the extra solenoid to turn it "ON". Once solenoid throws, the power to starter is sent. Extra solenoid and battery are mounted within one foot of starter. Super short cables and no line loss!
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2006 RAM 1500 HEMI 4X4 92 LT250
06 Raptor DP1776 Sandrail
02 HONDA 400EX
03 YAMAHA WR450F 74 BAJA |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20802
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Toby from MO wrote: |
| Dale M. wrote: |
| Toby from MO wrote: |
Thanks for the links...I'll check'em out.
I have the brake lights on the ignition side due to having brake line lock. If the switch is on the battery side the lights are on any time the lock is set. |
Then its wired wrong........
Dale |
What's wired wrong?
The line lock is simply set by pressing brake pedal...then set the lock. It holds line pressure, not allowing pads to release. If the lights are wired on the battery side (always hot) the brakes lights would be on.
Am I missing something? Is there a different way?
Thanks, Toby |
The brake light are supposed to be "lit" by pressure on pedal at master cylinder..... Once Line Lock is activated and you release pedal, pressure should be off brake light switch.. So lamps should be off........ Switch needs to be between line lock and master cylinder, NOT after line lock ...... Its all about position of brake light switch in relationship to line lock....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Toby from MO
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Imperial, MO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the feedback guys. My brake light switch is after the line lock. I do not run factory pedals so my switch is not located on/near the master cylinder. I currently have my switch mounted in a brass "T" at the rear of the vehicle. I added an additional "T" fitting where the brake split at the rear trailing arms. Did this so to run only one wire the length of the vehicle vs. two. I may look into changing this. Thanks again. |
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Toby from MO
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Imperial, MO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| ZARJDR wrote: |
| Do you have Hibbard's book? If so you should consider wiring in a ford solenoid to send power to starter circuit. I ran one 10 ga wire to my distribution panel for all my elec. My starter switch only has 16 ga wire as this is signal only for the extra solenoid to turn it "ON". Once solenoid throws, the power to starter is sent. Extra solenoid and battery are mounted within one foot of starter. Super short cables and no line loss! |
Do not have a Hibbard's book but will look into this. After the rewiring is complete the battery will have been moved from the front of the vehicle to the rear. My battery will also be within approximately 1' of the starter. Essentially it will be sitting directly above the starter and about 1.5' in front of the alternator. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20802
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Toby from MO wrote: |
| ZARJDR wrote: |
| Do you have Hibbard's book? If so you should consider wiring in a ford solenoid to send power to starter circuit. I ran one 10 ga wire to my distribution panel for all my elec. My starter switch only has 16 ga wire as this is signal only for the extra solenoid to turn it "ON". Once solenoid throws, the power to starter is sent. Extra solenoid and battery are mounted within one foot of starter. Super short cables and no line loss! |
Do not have a Hibbard's book but will look into this. After the rewiring is complete the battery will have been moved from the front of the vehicle to the rear. My battery will also be within approximately 1' of the starter. Essentially it will be sitting directly above the starter and about 1.5' in front of the alternator. |
The start relay he is referring to is in the lead that activates the solenoid. Not main battery cables.... The original problem with the solenoid operation was actually with VW buses where they used a 16 gauge wire full length of bus and system was 6 volts, although it was adopted into may sedans later.... There for the "hard start" relay was almost a necessity. By using a 14 gauge wire from "start" switch or push button to solenoid for activation and with 12 volt system it pretty much eliminates need for relay in almost all cases.....
Here is one implementation of relay...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20802
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Toby from MO wrote: |
| Thanks for the feedback guys. My brake light switch is after the line lock. I do not run factory pedals so my switch is not located on/near the master cylinder. I currently have my switch mounted in a brass "T" at the rear of the vehicle. I added an additional "T" fitting where the brake split at the rear trailing arms. Did this so to run only one wire the length of the vehicle vs. two. I may look into changing this. Thanks again. |
Ok... Now we understand why your brake lights need to be killed with key....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Toby from MO
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Imperial, MO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| Toby from MO wrote: |
| Thanks for the feedback guys. My brake light switch is after the line lock. I do not run factory pedals so my switch is not located on/near the master cylinder. I currently have my switch mounted in a brass "T" at the rear of the vehicle. I added an additional "T" fitting where the brake split at the rear trailing arms. Did this so to run only one wire the length of the vehicle vs. two. I may look into changing this. Thanks again. |
Ok... Now we understand why your brake lights need to be killed with key....
Dale |
It was good point, thanks for bringing it up. I chalk it up to, "These items are where they are because that's where they've always been"...sort of a thing. I can easily move the brake switch with little issue...just never thought of why I should…certainly at the expense of one additional 16ga wire.
That said...you'll notice I'm running most everything off "key" power. Largely due to the fact that when all of our buggies are sitting, parked together, several of our kids (the younger boys) like to sit in them...playing, make belief driving/racing. You never know what they flip on.
You may even notice I put an on/off switch on the wire to the ignition coil. Yet another safety device to keep my 5yr old son from starting it in gear and running it through the back of the garage. Not to mention a simple yet effective "dummy proof" safety switch, even theft deterrent, for those adults who don't know better but only think they do.
I can keep the ignition key in my pocket, even remove the keyed battery disconnect…certainly several ways to "skin the cat" but I’ll tell you a determined 5yr old boy is 10x smarter and more capable than the average thief. |
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ZARJDR
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2008
Posts: 1039
Location: Eureka, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Just wait until that 5 year old becomes a teenager!!!! Try keeping your toys in the garage then(LOL) It is amazing how much better he likes my toys better than his own!!! He is 21 now and is still always after my dirtbike or quad rather than his own! The sandrail hasn't been safe since I bought it. At least he has got good priorities for his leisure time!
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2006 RAM 1500 HEMI 4X4 92 LT250
06 Raptor DP1776 Sandrail
02 HONDA 400EX
03 YAMAHA WR450F 74 BAJA |
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