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Witless Joe
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 463
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 Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Middle seat shoulder belts |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| The Bentley shows the 3-point belt modification/retrofit quite well. |
For the *rear* passenger-side seat, the Bentley has the measurements wrong for cutting the pass-through slot in the panel for the shoulder belt.
If you use their measurements, the belt chafes a bit on the guide. There's a thread here somewhere (which I read too late before cutting my own panel...).
IIRC, Bus Depot sold the OEM VW 3-point belt where the reel hides behind the panel (thus requiring cutting it as per Bentley), while Go Westy sold a "wart" that sticks the reel on the outside of that panel. |
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dobryan 
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17289
Location: Brookeville, MD
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Middle seat shoulder belts |
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| Witless Joe wrote: |
| j_dirge wrote: |
| The Bentley shows the 3-point belt modification/retrofit quite well. |
For the *rear* passenger-side seat, the Bentley has the measurements wrong for cutting the pass-through slot in the panel for the shoulder belt.
If you use their measurements, the belt chafes a bit on the guide. There's a thread here somewhere (which I read too late before cutting my own panel...).
IIRC, Bus Depot sold the OEM VW 3-point belt where the reel hides behind the panel (thus requiring cutting it as per Bentley), while Go Westy sold a "wart" that sticks the reel on the outside of that panel. |
Here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332191
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Middle seat shoulder belts |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| j_dirge wrote: |
Yep.. my driver's side middle bench 3-point is in.. |
Can you post a pic? I am very curious as to how this is done. Thanks! |
I honestly don't know if this is how it is supposed to mount in there.
Its pretty tight. Not much air space between the retractor and the outside sheetmetal skin.
Page 68.10 in the Bentley..
I had to space the bracket out as if the panel were there (those two beige rectangles behind the black bracket, scrap doorskin) .. otherwise the retractor hits the sheetmetal.
Got the belt used from SleepyJoe.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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ragnarhairybreeks
Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009
Posts: 1944
Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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hey, those are pics of my old '82 westy. i put that belt in 
and did the "padded" wall treatment
alistair
_________________
'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone done the 3-point belt swap into a van with the rear AC panels? Also, how about converting the front jump-seats?
Thanks,
Casey
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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Busdepot
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 1359
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Middle seat shoulder belts |
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| Witless Joe wrote: |
| IIRC, Bus Depot sold the OEM VW 3-point belt where the reel hides behind the panel (thus requiring cutting it as per Bentley), while Go Westy sold a "wart" that sticks the reel on the outside of that panel. |
That is correct. The one I sell is the original VW one that mounts behind your side panel, not onto it, and uses the existing factory mounts hidden under your panel. To recap, that means it looks more like the first picture posted below, not the second (the Go Westy "wart").
More importantly, in my mind, is that the genuine one is factory tested for use on a Vanagon and uses the factory mounts. The way I look at it (and I have one in my own Westy), I may only have one chance to find out if the design is sufficient to protect my daughter in the event of a major accident. Given a choice (for the time being; eventually the VW one go obsolete), I'd rather trust a seatbelt that was tested by actual VW engineers in an actual Vanagon than an aftermarket solution. The extra few bucks for a factory design is worth it to me in a case like this. I can't see going to this much trouble and then cutting corners on the seatbelt just to save a couple of bucks.
As for the Bentley diagram, perhaps it is wrong as the post suggest. I've never followed it. We ship the kit with a reprint of the original factory instructions, which worked fine on my own Vanagon.
Here is the link to the seatbelts:
http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=253857816D Passenger Side
http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=253857815D Driver Side (must cut hole through cabinet if you have a Westy)
http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=253857816KIT Retrofit kit (required for either, if you currently have only lap belts)
http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=253857749D Buckle (If you have an '85-91 you can use your existing buckle)
- Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot, Inc.
www.busdepot.com
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17289
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Middle seat shoulder belts |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| dobryan wrote: |
| j_dirge wrote: |
Yep.. my driver's side middle bench 3-point is in.. |
Can you post a pic? I am very curious as to how this is done. Thanks! |
I honestly don't know if this is how it is supposed to mount in there.
Its pretty tight. Not much air space between the retractor and the outside sheetmetal skin.
Page 68.10 in the Bentley..
I had to space the bracket out as if the panel were there (those two beige rectangles behind the black bracket, scrap doorskin) .. otherwise the retractor hits the sheetmetal.
Got the belt used from SleepyJoe. |
How will you get the shoulder belt part to properly line up with the passenger since they will be a cabinet width away from the wall? This is the part I could not figure out. Thanks for the pic.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Middle seat shoulder belts |
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| dobryan wrote: |
How will you get the shoulder belt part to properly line up with the passenger since they will be a cabinet width away from the wall? This is the part I could not figure out. Thanks for the pic. |
Its not perfect.. but it is a better fit over the shoulder than the rear 3-point belt (which kind of droops down onto the top of the bench..)
It still fits even when the middle bench is scooched over towards the sliding door.. The other issue, though, is that you might run out of belt.. So if you are sized like an NFL lineman, the belt may not extend far enough for the all-too-common American 'expanded' girth.
For kids and modest-waist sized adults it should work fine. The waist belt height appears to be OK, too.. similar to the fronts.
Funny thing, though.. Since I've put in the middle bench, I miss the peace of having the two kids waaaayyyy in the back. 
I'd also add.. I currently have the GW wart in the rear on the passeneger side. It works fine.
But I'm probably going to swap it out for the factory belts next yr some time. The GW wart looks weird.. and the retractor gets in the way.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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The Salt
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2010
Posts: 221
Location: Salt Lake
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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So, I've got both my retracting anchors in (yeah!) and am moving near the folding seat area. Is that a welded in bracket of some sort? How do I get the old belt off? I looked through the Bentley Manual too.
Am I suppose to disassemble the seat?
WTF?
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88 Wolfsburg Edition Weekender |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12406
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| You have to fully unbolt the rear seat and remove it(4 bolts). The gold cad part is a spacer and it needs to be spun out to be removed. |
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The Salt
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2010
Posts: 221
Location: Salt Lake
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Gotcha. Thanks!
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88 Wolfsburg Edition Weekender |
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Steelhead
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1791
Location: Kentfield, CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Has anyone done the 3-point belt swap into a van with the rear AC panels?
Thanks,
Casey |
x2. Figure I might as well keep this thread going. I'd swear I saw some pics and explanation of adding 3-point belts to the rear of carats (and others) that have the AC duct in the back. searched like mad and can't find it. Anyone done this?
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'77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper) |
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Volksaholic
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelhead wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Has anyone done the 3-point belt swap into a van with the rear AC panels?
Thanks,
Casey |
x2. Figure I might as well keep this thread going. I'd swear I saw some pics and explanation of adding 3-point belts to the rear of carats (and others) that have the AC duct in the back. searched like mad and can't find it. Anyone done this? |
I haven't done it yet, but it's in Bentley: 68.5-68.6 (Automatic 3-point seat belts, retrofit installation. From 1986 m.y. with A/C) It gives the dimensions that must be cut from the D pillar trim as well as the openings in the luggage area trim. I've got some I want to install... if I ever catch up on all my to-do list.
Paul
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1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251 |
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Steelhead
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1791
Location: Kentfield, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm determined to find alternative (or original) 3-point belts for the bench that can go behind panel, but not sure of dimensions.
this looks pretty interesting.
http://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/WSCH14134C-12.html
I need to check whether or not the 133" belt is sufficient to work, but also whether or not these spools will fit in that body panel cavity. I've got to think 1.75" is narrow enough.
Assuming the belt is long enough, and I can figure out how to anchor the spool and top guide, I think the challenge is figuring out how to put the latch (male part of coupler)on the other side of the belt...right? From looking at this, it would seem the that once the spool is mounted backwards (back of spool facing inside the cab) the latch will be on the pointing the wrong way on the webbing and require twisting. Can anyone visualize this properly? I think the webbing would need to be thread through the top guide the other direction. Not sure this is possible without removing and replacing the latch mechanism. Is this possible?
thoughts? I may just need to order one and start playing with it. Not too expensive.
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'77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper) |
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tarandusVDub
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 1683
Location: Between Here and There
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I too went the GoWesty route with the single anchor. Good discussion on pros and cons of factory v. aftermarket ~ might have gone factory if had to do over.
My 7 year old has absolutely graduated to the big girl booster seat, and the seat belt fits OK. She usually sits on the driver's side so she can use the table while driving.
The belt comes across her shoulder already, which is annoying to her and I catch her pulling it off and putting it behind her shoulder, which is muy mal. Similarly any bigger people sitting in the back say the shoulder belt cuts into their shoulder because it it too low, and get uncomfortable after a short while.
Has anyone looked into a ceiling 'hanger' that would pull the belt up off the shoulder and make it more comfortable, while still being safe? I know I've seen that done in sedans, but can't put my finger on any photos. It wouldn't have to support any weight in a crash, just perform the function of lifting of the shoulder...
This is a great safety upgrade, but less than useful if uncomfortable and removed on the sly...
_________________
1990 Syncro 16" DoppleKabine 2.1 DJ 112i
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Sold: 1972 Bay Campmobile; 1984 Westy, base model, 2WD. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelhead wrote: |
| I'm determined to find alternative (or original) 3-point belts for the bench that can go behind panel, but not sure of dimensions. |
You will also need a bracket to mount the seatbelt retractor to and then bolt to van's sheetmetal. This was definitely an afterthought design...
The OEM bracket has 3 holes.. as I recall. Flat plate stock? (I have a driver's side one here in may garage.)
The driver's side and passenger side are mirrored.. is my guess.
Finding a seat belt that fits in the recess would be step 2. But I think, from futzing around.. it should not be difficult.
If you want to team up on this, I'd be interested. We can reverse engineer from the OEM belt I have here.
Last I checked the passenger side OEMs at BD were sold out. If a bracket could be manufactured.. we'd be back in business.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Steelhead
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1791
Location: Kentfield, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| If a bracket could be manufactured.. we'd be back in business. |
Happy to collaborate. This bracket looks easy enough to replicate.
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'77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper) |
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porterbrown
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2005
Posts: 718
Location: Bentonville, AR
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| bunker108 wrote: |
I too am intersted in seeing a pic. I need to order a 3 point for the right rear on my 85 Westie. I need to put a car seat back there...baby due in December  |
Just a heads-up that the GoWesty 3-point system does not ratchet and lock like a modern car seatbelt. Typically, when you install a baby seat, you pull the seatbelt all the way to the end, then let it ratchet back so that it locks. The GW kit does not do this, and i found that out after it was purchased. |
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fixedgear
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 300
Location: Clear Lake, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Here's where the plug is on the right side of a Weekender
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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1986 Wolfsburg Weekender |
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