Dual battery diagram missing

gatorjos · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:56 am Post subject:

I just noticed on the actual relay that the 87 and 30 pole are fused with a 15A fuse, so I guess I won't be putting 30A through this relay Sad

I see in Scott's Diagram he's got 2.5mm wire (13AWG) called out, so I'll definitely bump the gauge on those wires. I still can't believe they would sell it with such a small gauge and for such a long run if you're hooking up the fridge. For me I just need to bridge to the left side of the car, so I guess the 16AWG prbly would be ok
_________________
1977 Westfalia Weekender Berlin "The Kitebus" aka " Colonel Mustard"

Previous romances:
1972 Ghia cabriolet (full body-off restoration -- stolen after five years of ownership)
2004 Passat 1.8T (manual)

http://21stcenturyhobo.com

gatorjos · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject:

The 15A fuse ended up blowing on the Hella relay, so I bought a 40A relay from Autozone for $5.99 to do the same job. Charging smoothly now.
_________________
1977 Westfalia Weekender Berlin "The Kitebus" aka " Colonel Mustard"

Previous romances:
1972 Ghia cabriolet (full body-off restoration -- stolen after five years of ownership)
2004 Passat 1.8T (manual)

http://21stcenturyhobo.com

kangaboy · Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:57 am Post subject:

in a quick short answer...is buying that little dual battery adapter a legitimate long term dual battery set up?
what is with all the inverters and battery switching terminals and all that stuff that i usually see everyone posting about?
_________________
-74 Standard - "CaliBug" 2084T, MS3X w/FI and Crank Fire
-76 Westy - "Gandalf"
-18 GTI SE

pdxgreen · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject:

So give me some feedback on this....... All the wiring was running from aux to pass side. I connected the black wire to the alt wire (blue) The alt wire coming from volt reg had a small box (original vw) so other pig tails could be connected. I connected the black to the + side. Checked battery level on the control box and checked it after bus was turned on. The battery level was hire when the bus turned on and I also felt the relay when it turned on( it clicked).
My question is what is up with all the diagrams showing two wires coming from the black wire? Do I need it?

Thanks

gratefulbuses · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject:

I am also trying to figure this whole AUX battery hook up thing for my 77. I don't have a fridge, just want to power my radio, cig. lighters (fan and cell phone), and interior lights via the AUX battery for camping.

I bought the Hella relay from the Bus Depot and the thing I'm not understanding (probably because I've read to many threads on this subject now), is how to hook up my accessories (radio, cig lighters, interior lights), and do I need any additional fuses in this set up? I read something about some folks putting a 30-40A in line fuse near the batteries? Is that because they are making there own system and don't have the Hella relay, or do I need to put in additional fuses with the Hella relay? Nothing in the directions about that. I've also read that some folks put in an additional fuse box (what I am planning on doing) under the bench seat, then how do you get the accessory wires hooked up to that?

aeromech · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:03 pm Post subject:

Hey Grateful,
I'll try to help you.

1) Run a heavy gauge wire from the aux battery forward to up under the dash.
2) Mount a fuse block somewhere up under the dash and not too far from the main fuse block.
3) You'll also want to install a 30 amp or so inline fuse in that heavy gauge line and not too far away from the aux battery.
4) All the power wires for stuff like dome lights, radio, etc should be plugged into the main fuse block. Just remove them from there and connect them to the new fuse block. You may need to make up some short jumpers so you can reach.

That's about it.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

gratefulbuses · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:30 pm Post subject:

aeromech · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject:

call me at 619-672-9184
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

aeromech · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject:

1. Do I really need to run a heavier gauge wire than the one that came with the Hella relay kit from Bus Depot?

I don't know what they supplied you but bigger is better. You have to have a wire capable of supplying enough amps for all the components run from the aux battery and you have to assume that they would be all on at the same time.

2. Do I need an in line fuse (30A) before the main starter battery?

I'm guessing that you are planning on running a heavy gauge wire from the positive on the aux battery to the starter so you can use the aux battery for start if the start battery fails. 30 amp would be too small. The starter draws more than 30 amps I think so you would want something like a 80 amp. Fuses are for safety.

3. Where does that wire from the 86 on the relay go, alternator or voltage regulator, and what's the best why to connect it?

I've never wired an aux battery like you are doing. $29 doesn't get you much. I use hardware from West Marine and it costs closer to $150 but is a whole lot better. I would assume that the #86 wire is looking for 12 volts so when the generator starts charging it closes the relay and allows the aux battery to charge. What did the directions say?

4. What's the best option for connecting the wire to the positive side of the starter battery?

You could just run a wire to the big lug on the starter solenoid which is also connected to the positive side of the start battery.

5. Say I have a dead starter battery, do you have have to disconnect the AUX battery from the positive side before jumping starting the starter battery?

The way I install this system uses a battery switch which allows for OFF, ON, and COMBINE. So if the start battery goes dead you rotate the switch to COMBINE and then start the engine. In your case I'm guessing you plan to just use jumper cables from the aux battery to the start battery. If that's the case then no, you don't have to disconnect anything.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

aeromech · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject:

Here's some info

Fuse block: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle...sNum=11287
Switch: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle...sNum=10597
Let me know if you need more info. West Marine also has several tech articles on the subject.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle...nd-Battery
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

gratefulbuses · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:53 am Post subject:

I have a 77 Westy and bought a Bus Depot relay kit inorder to hook up an AUX battery. After reading more and more, I decided to buy/use a heavier 12 gauge wire with two 30A inline fuses before my starter battery and AUX battery. I think I'm doing everything right, but I'm a little unsure where the wire goes after the 86 connection on the relay? The bus depot directions say it goes to the trigger wire on the alternator? Where is the trigger wire on the alternator? Do they mean Voltage regulator? What's the best way to connect to this wire?

Thanks for the help!
_________________
85 Westy

gratefulbuses · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:16 am Post subject:

aeromech · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:28 am Post subject:

Scott posted this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Find the wire that runs up front (K2) and gives you the alternator idiot light. Then just hook the 86 up to it as in the picture. I believe it will be a short (6 inch) blue wire near your firewall right front lower corner.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

jpstewart19 · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:45 am Post subject:

Follow AeroMechs suggestion above. After much deliberation and help from him, I was going to go with his marie setup. However in the end, I ended up chickening out and going the cheap route with the Hella BD kit. Once aeromech set me straight on how it functions, installing the kit using Scott's German Supply instructions was a breeze. It's all in the diagram above.

I would have bought Scott's kit if at the time it was showing in stock, as I do think it's design is slightly better.
_________________
1985 Vanagon Westfalia Subie
1972 Super Beetle Convertible
1990 Vanagon GL "Winston" (Sold)
1980 Vanagon Westfalia “Rusty” (Sold)
1982 Vanagon Westfalia “Rusty II” (Sold)
1977 Smurf Blue Campmobile (Sold)

volksheads · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject:

Today I wired up an auxiliary battery in a 74 westy per the diagram in this thread with the Bosch relay and 10-14 gauge wire.
When I do, the alternator warning light won't go out when the car is running. When I disconnect terminal 86 from the Bosch relay - it does go out...
I was just curious if anyone had any thoughts on what the problem might be.
_________________
MonkeyNut VW - www.monkeynutvw.com

Piedmont Transporter Owners (PTO)
Home of CTS (Charlotte Transporter Show)
May 20th, 2023 - CTS #20!

'53 Single Cab
'65 Walkthrough Sunroof Standard
'71 Double Cab w/ '64 Heilite Single Wheel

telford dorr · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject:

Try disconnecting wire #87 instead, such that the relay operates but the aux battery is disconnected. If the ALT light now functions normally, then there's something wrong with the aux battery or its connections. If it still stays lit, then there's something wrong with the aux battery relay, its connections, or the alternator system. Measure the voltage from 86 to 85 and post here. Divide and conquer.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

volksheads · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:51 am Post subject:

ran the test as you suggested this morning. When the 87 wire is disconnected the alt. warning light on the dash stays on when the motor is running. This suggests the problem is with the relay? test voltage across 85 and 86 terminals and got 4.40 V when running.
_________________
MonkeyNut VW - www.monkeynutvw.com

Piedmont Transporter Owners (PTO)
Home of CTS (Charlotte Transporter Show)
May 20th, 2023 - CTS #20!

'53 Single Cab
'65 Walkthrough Sunroof Standard
'71 Double Cab w/ '64 Heilite Single Wheel

telford dorr · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:47 am Post subject:

aeromech · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:17 am Post subject:

Hey Telford. What was that saying? How does it go? Something like "when you buy quality, you only cry once"
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

telford dorr · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:49 am Post subject:

"Buy the best and cry once" - Gene Berg
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)


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