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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16591
Location: North Florida, USA
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 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| god_grinder wrote: |
yeah ashman. somebody showed me that before and i switched the hoses and it ran like crap. that was when i first put the rebuild in.Ill try swapping it and see how it runs on the way home from work tonight. (i just went out and switched it and it deffinately seems to have slowed the idle a bit) will see how it drives on the way home tonight.
How about the dist.? do the 205 AJ's go with the H30/31pict? or should i think about swapping carbs? would rather keep the dist seeing as its German and wouldn't mind getting a more performance carb. |
The H30/31 was not meant to be paired with either the SVDA or DVDA distributors. The vacuum advance signal is wrong for those two. The vacuum advance seems to be closer to the SVSA distributor signaling. The H30/31 does have the proper vacuum RETARD signaling for the DVDA distributors, but without the proper advance it is mismatched.
You could look for the proper matching Solex 34pict-3 to go with that distributor. You will need to match the stamping located on the base flange of the carb. Look at Andy's chart. Looks like the 205AJ only came with the '71 carb that had the 279-1 stamping.
I wouldn't call a 34pict-3 a "performance" carb, but it does flow more than the 30/31.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16591
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| god_grinder wrote: |
yeah ashman. somebody showed me that before and i switched the hoses and it ran like crap. that was when i first put the rebuild in.Ill try swapping it and see how it runs on the way home from work tonight. (i just went out and switched it and it deffinately seems to have slowed the idle a bit) will see how it drives on the way home tonight.
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To try and explain why your carb and your distributor are not a great match....
H30/31 vacuum advance port is similar to a 30Pict-1. The left side vacuum port goes to the venturi area or the carb throat. Here the vacuum increases are the air speed increases. So the higher the engine rpm the more vacuum. Perfect for SVSA distributors that have no mechanical advance and generally need to advance more as engine speed increases.
34Pict-3 vacuum advance port goes to a port just above the closed throttle plate (ported vacuum). At idle, this port gets no vacuum. As soon as the throttle plate open up, the port sees intake vacuum and SPIKES. This quickly advances the timing and you get a small burst of power just as you open the throttle. This is right where the 009 hesitates, and why the SVDA/DVDA are the better match for the 34Pict-3. Once the throttle is OPEN the ported vacuum acts just like intake vacuum; increasing as the throttle closes and the engine rpms increase, decreasing when the throttle is quickly opened.
The H30/31 & 34Pict-3 vacuum retard is connected to intake vacuum. When the throttle plates are closed the vacuum is very high creating the most RETARD of the timing (5ATDC at idle). When you set the timing at idle with the vacuum hoses connected, this vacuum retard will take away 11-13deg of timing with an end result of 5ATDC. This means that with the vacuum retard disconnected/disabled you should read around 5-7BTDC at idle. This also means that the idle SHOULD lower while the vacuum retard is connected and working at idle. Once the throttle is opened, the vacuum signal quickly drops off initially and the timing degrees that were removed by the vacuum retard are given back. Add these "returned degrees" to the vacuum advance from the 34Pict-3's ported vacuum advance... and you get a nice boost in power just off idle (again compensating where the 009 cannot).
So what happens when you hook your DVDA or SVDA to a H30/31???
The vacuum retard should still remove around 11-13deg of timing at idle (when intake vacuum is providing as much as 9.1 In-Hg) causing the idle to drop in rpm. You will need to compensate with carb adjustments.
The trouble is in the vacuum advance. The vacuum signal available in the (venturi) vacuum advance port on the 30Pict-1 and the H30/31 goes from a low around 1.3 In-Hg up to 3.2 In-Hg. The vacuum signal available in the (ported) vacuum advance port on the 34Pict-3 peaks around 6.7 In-Hg. That is more than DOUBLE!
So the SVDA and DVDA distributors are expecting almost twice the vacuum signal than the H30/31 can produce on the vacuum port. There may be some advance at higher rpms, but you will NOT get the SPIKE of vacuum + power boost just off idle that the engine and distributor are expecting from the distributor.
The mechanical advance in the SVDA and DVDA will increase as engine rpms increase (like a 009)... and the vacuum advance may increase even more on top of that as the rpms increase giving you a small boost at higher rpms, but you will never get the full 5-12deg of advance because the venturi vacuum cannot produce that much vacuum. So your vacuum advance is hobbled.
The DVDA + H30/31 distributor/carb combo will not perform well off idle and at lower rpms. Which might explain why it "ran like crap" for you.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8701
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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still wondering what Aircooled.net does to his rebuilt svdas so they work on the 30/31. He says it proprietary but it seems to work.
Anyone have one of johns distributors that works on the 30/31? |
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god_grinder
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Joined: August 13, 2011
Posts: 93
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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okay sorry it took so long to get back and reply. been busy with the holidays and such. I swapped the hoses on the carb and replaced all the gaskets on the exhaust and its running way better. no more backfire though it is still very laggy on the takeoffs and at low rpm's which makes sense with what you where saying about it lacking the vacuum to advance the timing like it should. I was able to find a guy locally who had an old 34pict3 laying around and was able to get it off of him for a wopin $20. I unfortunately didnt think to check the stamp on it when i went and of course it doesn't mach. it is stamped 1 787 (the first 7 is smaller). So would i still be better of rebuilding this one and trying it or should i continue to look for another one with the proper stamp?
thanks again for all the help. its much appreciated.
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16591
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I think you need to start a new thread since this seems to be pointing towards a different carb.
You might try reading this thread and see if it helps:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365762
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26533
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| god_grinder wrote: |
| an old 34pict3 .... it is stamped 1 787 (the first 7 is smaller). So would i still be better of rebuilding this one and trying it or should i continue to look for another one with the proper stamp? |
That's not a modification state number. Is this a German carb? Is that number on the left side of the carb by the throttle lever? Only a stamp that begins with "VW " on the left side has meaning as far as factory installation and application.
-Andy |
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6Kabrio7
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'm about to buy a a new carb for my 1600 DP I recently had rebuilt. I have a brosol h30/31 currently on it but want a brand new one. I changed the distributor to a correct 205 AJ from the original 67 version and I keep stalling now. So i'm thinking of a new Brosol H30/31 and switching the 67 distributor back and see what happens. I'll add this I had a new brosol h30/31 on my old 70 bug and it ran perfectly. I once had a Bocar carb and it leaked gas I don't trust them.
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glutamodo
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Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Don't bother going by what is correct for your year - not unless you also have the correct carburetor as well. Despite the numerous vacuum fittings on the carb, the H30/31PICT is set up like the 1970 30PICT-3 for it's distributor to be correct - that's a vac-only, the 113905205T (or M) - and previous vac-only distributors will work OK with it too, like the 205K from 1967.
-Andy |
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jgrexx
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glutamodo
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Posts: 26533
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Here you go, excerpts from German Technical Bulletins. The correct term would be auxiliary fuel jet. (I don't like to call them power jets, because these carbs have two power fuel jets for high speed enrichement totally independant of that idle circuit plumbing)
(I ran the text here through some translator programs) And I've seen some notes that talk about it too - about not to get it confused with the aux fuel jet and "Die Leerlauf kraftstoffdüse sitzt schräg im Unterteil." (The idle fuel jet sits diagonally in the base.)
-Andy |
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jgrexx
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jonchames
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Joined: September 12, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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If you need it, the baseline jetting for that 30/31 (on a 1600) would be:
Main 125
Idle 55 |
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jgrexx
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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yeah that's what i have in there now. still a slight hesitation since i'm using the 009 dizzy but not too bad. i guess i could go up to a 127.5 but i'll probably just deal with it how it is for now.
i have another question. ok so when tuning the carb you turn volume screw out to 2 1/2 turns out. everything is set right but when i turn the screw in or out 1/4 turn nothing changes. the idle is supposed to increase and smooth out a tad but nothing happens. if i turn it in or out 1/2 turn the idle starts to bog like it's too lean or too rich depending on which way you turn it.
the instructions i've seen say adjust big bypass screw to 850rpms idle and then starting at 2 1/2 turns out on the volume screw adjust it until the rpms rise to the highest point and then turn it in until they drop 20-30rpms. the thing is when i turn it nothing happens. what would cause this? i just don't notice any changes when trying to fine tune the volume screw. there's nothing wrong with the carb. no leaks, all jets clear, o rings and gasket in good shape. dizzy is timed right. idle adjustment screw set at .003" on bottom step of throttle linkage with feeler guage and then turned in 1/2 turn. valves adjusted to .006", points gap correct at .016" and dwell is right. everything is set right.
should i just set it at 2 1/2 turns out and go with it? engine seems to run fine anywhere from 2 1/4 turns out to 2 3/4 turns out.
the only thing i can think of is the lack of heat risers right now. would that affect setting the volume screw correctly at idle? is that the reason?
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1970 Baja Bug
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jgrexx
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Joined: July 19, 2012
Posts: 342
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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well i read after some searching that it could be an accelerator pump problem. they said if you take the air filter off with the car not running and move the throttle arm that gas should spray out of that sink faucet looking thing. mine doesn't do anything when i do that.
so i have a problem with the accelerator pump.
how do i go about fixing it? where do you get the parts needed? do i just take out the sink faucet thing and make sure it's clear? how do you remove it? or is it the pump itself on the side of the carb that has to be replaced?
the accelerator pump is the square piece. what is the triangular piece on the back of the carb?
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Ae0187
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jonchames
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Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Aircooled.net sells a rebuild kit that I just used and has the parts needed for the accelerator pump. I'd check that out. And the rest of the kit is good to have around regardless. Search on here or check your bentley manual (or other manual?) for repair instructions. It's not too hard. |
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Cadaver
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
still wondering what Aircooled.net does to his rebuilt svdas so they work on the 30/31. He says it proprietary but it seems to work.
Anyone have one of johns distributors that works on the 30/31? |
(its obvious no?) (spring or diaphram diameters changes. do this job)
he removes the 230mm vacuum can and puts on , drum roll.
70mm can, or use an unknown CAN and then a custom outside spring?
there are only 2 variable here, change 1 or both.
if you have the wrong dizzy for your H30
you might find a vacuum can that will fit and work.
using the old dizzy vacuum Can or spring.
or off the 1300 dizzy in Europe.
http://ac-vw-remove.com/At_Wits_End/Carbs-Suck/carbs-suck1.html#cancan
see this chart at the end , here.
try the non usa vac can marked
07059? (my best guess.. wish i could try it...)
this ran on the (31pict3)s which the h30 is a clone of.
dizzy used there was 043-905-205 on their bugs.
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ashman40
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Posts: 16591
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| jgrexx wrote: |
| idle adjustment screw set at .003" on bottom step of throttle linkage with feeler guage and then turned in 1/2 turn. |
Try turning the fast idle adjustment screw out a little (close the throttle plate). I usually set it to 1/4 or 1/2-turn in (open) from where the screw is just touching the lowest flat on the fast idle cam. This opens the throttle plate just enough to expose the idle holes in the throat. Open the throttle plate too much and you expose the progression holes. Once the progression circuit starts to flow the idle circuit adjustments become less apparent.
Your accelerator pump could be a problem. Have you tried pulling the nozzle straight up/out and blowing it clean with compressed air? Sometimes its just a but of crud in the nozzle. Be sure when you press it back into place it is aimed at the opening of the throttle plate. This gets all of the discharge into the intake.
Also, the accelerator pump only works with a sudden opening of the throttle. If you open the throttle slowly the accelerator pump may not squirt.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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jgrexx
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jgrexx
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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i took the accelerator pedal cable loose and re-tightened it down making sure there was no tension on the throttle arm holding it slightly open or anything. i reset the fast idle adjuster and it was turned in less this time. perhaps i had the cable a tad too tight.
i was gonna pull the nozzle for the accelerator pump out but i couldn't get it to move. it went side to side a tad but it wouldn't pull out. i was like hmmm i'll just replace the accelerator pump and if it doesn't work then try to mess with the nozzle again. i didn't wanna break anything lol. anyways as i was putting the carb back together i hit the throttle arm and gas squirted out of the nozzle! i guess something was clogged in there and whatever i did must've made it come loose. anyways it works now which is good. now i wasted $20 on a rebuild kit though but i guess i can save it to use down the road.
i'll try to retune the carb tomorrow or sometime and see how things go. it should be alot better this time around.
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