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Turk.380 
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 405
Location: St. Louis
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 Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: Aux Battery / charging consultation |
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Greetings Collective.
I know, there are about 561,307 threads on Aux batteries. I've read MANY. Enough to make my head spin, but I'm getting some ideas rattling around.
Once my Subaru H6 conv is done and I'm back on the road, more upgrades will be forthcoming..
NOTES:
My system is already modified to eliminate the glowing Alt light from the fridge relay after a subie swap.
I also already have the GW Aux relay and years ago did mods behind my fuse panel to change over my clock, Radio, lighter, etc to the Aux battery.
I don't remember the finer details of how either was done.
Present Day:
I would call my power requirements modest. I don't run amps or fancy radio gear.
I run my Dometic from propane.
We charge a typical array of i-devices from time to time... run an iPod, change phones, iPad, etc from 12v.
Interior lights are a mix of OEM incandescent, aftermarket florescent, and LED.
We don't do a lot of extended off-grid camping or park for extended periods. Often, when parked for camping we are connected to shore power for a window A/C in summer (hey man, it's sweaty here!) and sometimes a electric heater in winter. I run the Dometic on 120v when plugged in.
We are usually driving at least 100 miles per day on a short day / all day long most others. So I'll be getting some Alt charge every day.
Our Needs:
The wife has authorized a TF-49 to replace our Dometic.
I'm considering either the well documented 4-unit bank of UB12220's or a recent solution of a drop-in DieHard P2.
It appears that the UB's give you 88Ah and the DieHard grp 65 is 75Ah. Not much of a difference really so I'm leaning towards the more "drop in" DieHard
I will need an isolator / combiner, yes? such as a Yandina 1000 ?
I would like to be able to charge my Aux bat when plugged into shore power, but am not sure of the solution to use there. What I mean by that is, something which would just automatically start charging when plugged in, w/out my interaction.
Down the road, I *may* want to add solar capabilities, but this is not planned in the immediate future. however would like to hear some suggestions for a suitable panels & charge controller to tie into above system. Again, I don't camp off grid for days on end, I'm thinking more along the lines of one to just help give me a boost on days w/out a lot of driving.
Also down the road is a Propex, so would need to occasionally power that as well.
Thanks all, and my apologies for starting yet another house power thread!
_________________
Brian W
St. Louis, MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch Top Westy | '74 RHD DoubleCab | '87 Syncro Westy: Subaru EZ30D powered | 2002 VW Winnebago Vista
'70 Karmann Ghia AutoStick coupe. |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Your power needs are actually pretty modest. The biggest draw will be a fridge. A good sized battery will do fine powering that fridge considering how much and often you plan to drive. Solar and shore power charging adds a lot of money and complication. If you want occational shore power charging, a cheap trickle charger will fit the bill.
I would shy away from mulitply battery packs. If one dies, they all will get killed and that adds complextion and cost. I spent 2 days chasing a shorted battery on my diesel truck once. Keep it cheap and simple and install one large battery.
My personal setup is a large Odyssey under the bench (balances westy lean) and a Yandina. The Blue Sea is even cheaper. It's solid, easy towire, and not much to go wrong. It powers my Propex for days and has enough for the fridge when I buy it.
Solar is for people who want to camp in Baja for 2 weeks. If you move every 3 days or less, there is no need. |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17293
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Turk.380
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 405
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| dobryan wrote: |
You may want to look into a battery charger that also can be a power supply to the TF-49.
http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls30.htm
You can use a 12 V TF (not a 12/120V) and run it when you have shore power as well as charging your aux battery. (I believe that Karl at Westy Ventures recommends this one.) |
hmmm, so are you saying that this unit will supply the TF49 with 12v power from the aux battery while disconnected from shore power as well as 12v power from shore + charge all in one?
It doesn't seem clear that it does that from the description..
if that's the case, then I think I've found my solution.. (or rather YOU found my solution I should say!)
_________________
Brian W
St. Louis, MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch Top Westy | '74 RHD DoubleCab | '87 Syncro Westy: Subaru EZ30D powered | 2002 VW Winnebago Vista
'70 Karmann Ghia AutoStick coupe. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17293
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| stl_stadtroller wrote: |
hmmm, so are you saying that this unit will supply the TF49 with 12v power from the aux battery while disconnected from shore power as well as 12v power from shore + charge all in one?
It doesn't seem clear that it does that from the description..
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The unit does nothing while disconnected from shore power. When connected to shore power I believe that it can charge the aux battery and provide 12V power to the TF. But don't take my word for it. Please contact the manufacturer or a retailer to get more detailed info.
You'll still need a Yandina or similar unit to allow your alternator to charge the aux battery when the engine is running.
Let us know what you end up doing.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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Turk.380
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 405
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| dobryan wrote: |
Let us know what you end up doing. |
OK, here's what I ended up with -
standard grp 41 battery as my SLI batt.
DieHard P2 grp 65 battery as the Aux
Yandina C100 combiner
all interior lighting and accessories are wired to the Aux battery
Truckfridge TF-49 (12/110v) installed.
I got back yesterday afternoon from what will probably be the most extreme of my off-grid camping weekends - 3 1/2ish days of Buses Nowhere Near the Arch. From Friday around noon to Monday morning when I left, I ran the TF-49 on dial setting 4, kept my iphone and tablet charged, ran the radio some, and had interior lightning on a bit. I also jump-started a diesel Rabbit from the Aux battery.
It was late Saturday night before the Westy battery level indicator went to yellow, and mid-afternoon Sunday when it went to red. At some time in the wee hours of Sunday night.. nay,, Monday morning the fridge finally shut down but was still cold by the time I fired up to leave around 10AM
Only my poor Ben & Jerry's got a little mushy. 
Battery was back up to full power by the end of the 3 hr drive home.
Any other weekend and I would have plenty of power to take me through our typical overnight stops or Friday evening to Sunday AM typical VW camp weekends.
I maybe would have even made it through BNNTA weekend if I hadn't jumped that diesel.
My next step will be to install a charger that would activate when connected to shore power, and I was looking at a basic 8A unit from Cabela's or similar. If my understanding of the Yandina instructions are correct, I can just get a single-bank charger and connect it to only the Aux battery and the Yandina will coordinate charging of both Aux and SLI batteries.
No plans for solar at this time.
_________________
Brian W
St. Louis, MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch Top Westy | '74 RHD DoubleCab | '87 Syncro Westy: Subaru EZ30D powered | 2002 VW Winnebago Vista
'70 Karmann Ghia AutoStick coupe. |
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Syncronoid
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012
Posts: 1120
Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| In regards to solar... well worth the investment when you make the move. I have a 110aH aux battery, Iota charger for charging the battery/running the fridge from shore power, a TF49, Xantrex 1000watt inverter and a 127watt solar panel. This past weekend I ran the TF49 set on 6, the stereo (including subwoofer) was on all day/night and the lights, dvd and computer all night. The solar panel kicked out enough juice daily to run the fridge and stereo, while also charging the battery to max capacity. By morning, my aux battery was still in the green. |
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Outback Kampers
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Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2345
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Figure on 20-25 amp-hours per day being consumed by the fridge. That means a 100 amp-hour battery is only going to give 3~3.5 days before dropping to 25% - and that if you start with truly 100% charge. If you're running a battery down until the fridge stops - STOP doing that or you'll buy another battery soon. AGM batteries (or any deep cycle batteries) should not be drawn down below 30% or the lifespan is shortened dramatically. A simple or complex battery monitor is a good idea, three LEDS don't give enough info. I've been installing cheapo $10 ebay digital displays in a few vans lately.
AGM charge: 100% = 12.8, 75% = 12.5, 50% = 12.2, 25% = 11.9.
Most alternators will not get an AGM battery to 100%. A good strong solar panel or plug-in 3-stage charger is usually required. With these, a bulk charge is done first at slightly under 14V but high amps, then the absorption stage starts at about 14.4V but lower amperage until it reaches 100% charge, then goes to float or 'maintenance' charge. I'm still learning myself, so if I've missed something please feel free to add to this, those of you with more experience.
As far as batteries go - so far I have been mildly disappointed with Interstate, Optima, Deka. The Sears Platinum version (less expensive than) of the Odyssey seems robust, but for only my latest personal choice is the Lifeline batteries. Expensive but worth it.
_________________
Karl Mullendore
1990 Syncro 16" sunroof Reimo highroof conversion
1990 Westy Multivan 112i automatic
1992 LT31 Karmann Distance Wide 'La Tortuga'
2014 Touareg X TDI |
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Turk.380
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 405
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| westyventures wrote: |
| Figure on 20-25 amp-hours per day being consumed by the fridge. That means a 100 amp-hour battery is only going to give 3~3.5 days before dropping to 25% - and that if you start with truly 100% charge. If you're running a battery down until the fridge stops - STOP doing that or you'll buy another battery soon. |
Yep
I don't think you're wrong there either, but I'm just learning too.
For the reasons you state above is why my next purchase is a proper plug-in charger while on shore power. and since I splurged for the 12/110v fridge it will switch over to 110 while plugged in as well.
The BNNTA weekend is as I said my most extreme, once per year scenario. 99% of the time I'm not off-grid or at least driving a few hours for more than a 36hr stretch.
Letting it run down this one time was more of a proof-of-concept test than the norm by any means.
_________________
Brian W
St. Louis, MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch Top Westy | '74 RHD DoubleCab | '87 Syncro Westy: Subaru EZ30D powered | 2002 VW Winnebago Vista
'70 Karmann Ghia AutoStick coupe. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: |
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I found my Fluke AC/DC current probe. I need to get some banana plugs to make a cable for it (why does the cable always disappear?)
I want to verify these various current demand claims.
From my experience, you can draw an almost new 220AH deep cycle battery to 50% from 100% in 9 to 11 hours with several of the popular fridges, it seems. That is the over night strictly on batteries in the Summer rate. That has been with an Isotherm, Truckfridge and Engel in two different vans now. ONLY the fridges were connected as a test inside the garage.
time to see what they really are doing.....
It may be informative to read:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_measure_state_of_charge
Sorry for the OT.
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MarkWard
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Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I'm considering either the well documented 4-unit bank of UB12220's |
Be glad you did not go that route. One of my 4 is weaping past the negative post. I caught it before it did much damage. In hindsight, for the labor involved etc, a standalone battery in my opinion is a better option. With the UB's if one battery has a problem it affects the others. I will be dumping mine. |
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4x4BNB
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Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 274
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Some folks have opted for the Xantrex inverter/charger for shore power and inverter....
I wanted to keep things simple...I opted for the Xantrex true charge 2 20 amp, 3 bank, charger ...it allows you to charge up to three banks with 3 stage smart charger and...it has an optional remote to meter each individual battery banks...
Im coupling that with a Xantrex 1800 mod sine wave inverter...the wife wants a coffee maker (simple compromise)....
Sorry to hear about your UB 12220 problem...are there any other, well made, batteries with the same dimensions?? Made the Tempest TD22-12? |
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4x4BNB
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Flash Kaleo
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Joined: January 11, 2012
Posts: 47
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: Charger |
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Am I understanding correctly? Can you use the batter charger as a way to maintain power to the battery while you continue to pull off of it?
Thanks...
Flash
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nocreditnodebt
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Joined: September 28, 2012
Posts: 332
Location: Socal
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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The Iota battery charger linked to above is designed to power 12 DC volt loads while charging the batteries. 120 volt AC grid power is required. They are called converters in the RV world, and come in all sorts of different brands and amperage ratings.
Regular automatic battery chargers might work properly with the cycling load of the fridge or they might not.
I have a 2/12/25 amp Automatic Schumacher charger, and it handles the cycling load of the fridge, or my 6.2 amp mattress heating pad, but only on the 12 amp setting, and only when the house batteries are above ~ 65% charged. Otherwise it thinks something is wrong and shuts itself off.
Converters are like HD battery chargers that can handle cycling loads and charging the batteries up to full whenever 120volt AC power is available.
They are a completely different charging source than the alternator.
I ordered a DC only Fridge for 100$ less than the AC/DC. I will put the 100$ toward a Progressive Dynamics 9260 converter.
For now My Schumacher is keeping the batteries topped off overnight while the fridge is running. |
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4x4BNB
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