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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:25 am Post subject: Karmann Ghia Door Differences |
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This has been discussed a lot in various posts over the years. There are notations made in progressive changes type listings. This topic has even been locked when asked with a simple statement of "it's been discussed before".
I came to realize that there is no list of differences for I am trying to help someone who needs doors, I have many and don't want to send him mismatched junk for his car.
I've not found a comprehensive listing of the differences in the doors over the years of manufacture.
I've found that there are at least 7 different doors, possibly 8 but I'm not sure.
I've listed out the doors by what I think are year change groupings. I've noted the changes that I could find and verify. I want to add photos of the changes to help people understand what door they need to look for or what door they have sitting on the car now!
From what I can find, all doors will bolt to all year bodies. The issues arise with door latching and window fit to the rear 1/4 glass.
Please please please help make this list accurate. Provide photos, provide differences and by all means if I've got a mistake in my list, tell me about it.
Thanks
Dave
In the next post will be my information to begin this discovery of doors.....
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:25 am Post subject: |
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KARMANN GHIA DOOR DIFFERENCES
Note: Coupes and Sedans utilized the same doors and hardware. The shape of the glass was changed for the soft top.
The Convertible has a rounded upper rear corner on the glass.
The Coupe has a squared upper rear corner on the glass
List of years, chassis numbers and differences I can find. I want to add photos of each door series and also photos for each change. Any help by readers here would be much appreciated. Also let me know of any inaccuracies that need to be fixed on this main list.
List created, November 3, 2010
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1956-1957 '56 - '57 Model Year (Ch# 929 746 thru 1 600 439)
** Door Glass short. Has a metal filler between door edge and glass opening
*********************************************
1958-1959 '58-'59 Model Year (Ch# 1 600 439 thru 2 528 667) August '58 thru July '59
**Similar to 56 and 57 ?
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1959 ½ - 1960 '60 Model Year (Ch# 2 528 668 thru 3 192 507) August '59 thru July '60
**.Door glass longer, no longer a metal filler between glass and rear edge of door
**Door window lift assembly has glass mounting bar horizontal, previously angled
*************************************
1961, 1962, 1963
'61 Model Year (Ch# 3 192 507 thru 4 0101 994) August '60 thru July '61 '62 Model Year (Ch #4 010 995 thru 4 846 836) August '61 thru July '62 '63 Model Year (Ch# 4 846 836 thru 5 677 118) August '62 thru July '63
**??
| Gary wrote: |
| 1956 - 1963 have the same inner lever setup - they used a handle vice a smaller lever. The door striker was the same for these cars too. |
*********************************
1964, 1965, 1966
'64 Model Year (Ch# 5 677 119 thru 6 402 399) August '63 thru July '64
'65 Model Year (Ch# 145 000 001 thru 145 999 000) August '64 thru July '65
'66 Model Year (Ch# 146 000 001 thru 146 1021 300) August '65 thru July '66
**1966 First door mounted outside mirror. Previously, a graceful, swan-necked fender mounted mirror.
** ??
| Gary wrote: |
| Strikers were the same from 1964 - 1966... |
*******************************
1967 One year only Door
'67 Model Year (Ch# 147 000 001 thru 147 999 000) August '66 thru July '67
**Americanized door lock with separate knob located at top of rear of door. (Continued for only 4 model years)
**Last year of push button exterior door handle assembly
| Gary wrote: |
| Strikers were the same from .... 1967 - 1974.... |
********************************
1968, 1969, 1970
'68 Model Year (Ch# 148 000 001 thru 148 999 000) August '67 thru July '68
'69 Model Year (Ch# 149 000 001 thru 149 1200 000) August '68 thru July '69
'70 Model Year (Ch# 142 2000 000 thru 142 3200 000) August '69 thru July '70
**Door sheet metal, behind chrome door handle, is cupped, allowing handle to be tapered and tucked closer to body. (To end)
**From outside, a lever, or trigger, hidden by chrome housing, now, must be tripper with fingers to open door. (To end) (Previously, a button, pushed with one's thumb, activated door handle.)
***********************************
1971 One year only door
'71 Model Year (Ch# 141 2000 000 thru 141 3200 000) August '70 thru July '71
**Door lock migrates back to a finger pull lever in door panel, rather than American style lock knob on top of door. (Ever after)
notice raised spot for door lock knob but no hole for it.
**End of old style window scraper mounting.
| bt wrote: |
72-74 have a different outside window scraper than the rest.
71 down has a thin chrome blade with a flat piece of rubber riding against the window. 72-74 has a round "ish" aluminum piece with felt rubbing against the window. It slides onto a lip at the top of 72/74 doors(held on by plastic clips)............. |
*********************************
1972, 1973, 1974
'72 Model Year (Ch# 142 2000 000 thru 142 3200 000) August '71 thru July '72
'73-'74 Model Year (Ch# 143 2000 000 and up) August '72 thru Spring '74
**New Window scraper mounting, Door has a vertical flange on the exterior but no holes drilled in the door to accommodate this change.
**Door Lock Lever with door finger pull lever
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:35 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Ghiaddict
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Joined: November 20, 2002
Posts: 2632
Location: Now in Honea Path, SC
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Help!! What year did this door interior release style begin?? I'm thinking 1967????
Thanks,
Dave |
Single trigger lever like that is 1967-70.
But remember split trigger lever was 1964-1966
(W/remote door lock), along with later models.
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****************************
Karmann Ghia & Beetle parts available.
Convertible tops installed. |
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djkeev
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djkeev
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70 140
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Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
72-74 have a different outside window scraper than the rest.
71 down has a thin chrome blade with a flat piece of rubber riding against the window. 72-74 has a round "ish" aluminum piece with felt rubbing against the window. It slides onto a lip at the top of 72/74 doors(held on by plastic clips). there is no lip on 71 down doors. |
The bolded statement is incorrect.
Yes, the scraper changed for 72-74, as did the quarter window post, and surround seals. The 72-74 scraper clips on to a lip that is formed as part of the outer skin of the door. The photo below shows a 72-74 door. Note the lip is formed as part of the skin.
The earlier doors also used a lip for the scraper seal to sit on, however the seal was held in place by the clips in the underside of the chrome trim piece. This lip is a separate strip of metal fastened to the inside of the door. The photo below shows that lip, and how it is separate:
The lip on the earlier doors fills part of the window slot (which is why the opening looks larger on later 72-74 doors). The position of the lip on the 72-74 door makes it impossible to use the earlier trim and scraper, even if you drill the holes for the chrome to snap in. There is not enough room for it all to fit.
You may also want to go through the changes in strikers, latches and hinges. |
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Loren 
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Here are some differences between a 57 and a 58-59 Ghia door. The biggest difference between the doors is the check strap. On 56-57 doors a flat bar was used, while a 58-59 door used a funky spring. There is also a vertical brace on the 58-59 door that is not found on earlier doors.
This is an original 57 door. Below the top four screws for the window regulator you will find a stamped number. This number is found through out the car and was used to keep body parts with the correct car. This number is found behind the spare tire, on both doors, on the front and rear hood. I don't know how long this system was used, but I imagine is was phased out shortly after low light production, ie. mid 59 for 60 production models.
This is the check strap on the 57 door.
This is the 57 check strap from the inside.
This door still had the latch on the door. You can see the date stamp of 3.57 near the bottom of the latch. There is a date stamp on all early locks and window regulators (at least all of the ones I have come across have date stamps).
This is the 58 or 59 Ghia door. Since the interior pieces are missing I don't have a part to date it more accurately, but it does have the hole for the spring check strap. There is also a vertical brace. I don't know when or for how long this brace was used.
Here is the hole for the spring check strap.
Here is a top view. Notice the round hole to acces the retaining screw.
Here is a view from inside the door.
Here are the three components that make up the check strap.
Close up of the spring.
Close up of the bracket that holds the end of the spring to the door jamb.
This is the post that the spring rides on. This piece is often broken or very worn. This one is in great shape.
Here are the parts assembled. The door jamb bracket on one end, the post fits in the middle of the spring and is attached via a nut through the round hole on the inside of the door (see photo above). For those cars out there that still use this set up be sure the post is well lubricated so it won't wear out. |
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Jasonscool
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Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| So there is differences in the door mechanics but how about fit? Could I put a late model ghia door from say a 74 on a 69 body and everything still line up and be functional? |
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Gary
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Jasonscool wrote: |
| So there is differences in the door mechanics but how about fit? Could I put a late model ghia door from say a 74 on a 69 body and everything still line up and be functional? |
Yes. Essentially the doors all maintained the same shape throughout the years. Gap adjustment might be a bear because the door jamb was tweaked at the factory with filler.
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Speedsterboy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: |
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Great information as usual, thanks guys...now I just realized I need a R/H door for my 56 
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bob1
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Sorting out all my Ghia doors yesterday and try to put correct years on it, and learning from the above, the VW parts book, different parts supplier catalogs and the like I came to conclusion there is 9 different Ghia doors.... I try to resume to list here to my best knowledge with the "easy to recognize differences" that would make easy to put the right year on the right door....
1955 only; door is closed for the most part of the inner side
1956-1957; small horizontal hole for door check strap under upper hinge, butterfly lock style hole.
1958-1959; larger vertical oval hole for spring type door check strap under upper hinge, butterfly lock style hole, brace bar vertical inside door.
1960-1963; no hole for door check strap, butterfly lock style hole
1964-1966; oval hole for door lock
1967 only; late style oval with flat bottom door lock hole, early door handle outside
1968-1970; late style oval with flat bottom door lock hole, late beetle style door handle outside, opening for door pull on top inside (single inside door latch) little holes on top outside for clips window scraper
1971 only; late style oval with flat bottom door lock hole, late beetle style door handle outside, NO opening for door pull on top inside, (double inner door latch) little holes on top outside for clips window scraper.
1972-1974; late style oval with flat bottom door lock hole, late beetle style door handle outside, NO opening for door pull on top inside, (double inner door latch) NO little holes on top outside for clips window scraper.
all years given are models years, model years going from August previous year till July of the calendar year.
hope this brings the total all together and make some guys life way easier in organizing there doors, or looking for the correct door for your car.
Happy Karmanning!
Bob |
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John Moxon
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twiprod001
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Here's a question I haven't seen answered... Will a Convertible door fit a coupe and are the differances in the glass only. If that's the case I can deal with any metal alterations. Seams that the convertible door are a lot cheaper to buy than the coupe doors.
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It is what it is!!!
1972 Super Beetle
1973 Karmann Ghia
1971 Karmann Ghia Convert
1969 Karmann Ghia
1967 Karmann Ghia
New Project 1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe |
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bob1
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:46 am Post subject: |
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yes, convertible doors are exactly the same as coupe doors, the glass is always different, the trim is different on the 72-74 models....
this should help.... |
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calexican
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Location: El Paso, TX
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone make this piece? I just turned mine a half a turn and my doors stay open now, but I would like to replace them someday. |
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John Moxon
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calexican
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks John, I thought I had seen some somewhere. Those look perfect. |
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djway3474
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Location: The Real NDK So Cal
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| calexican wrote: |
Does anyone make this piece? I just turned mine a half a turn and my doors stay open now, but I would like to replace them someday. |
I recently got some of Lorens. Very nice. He has a few other low light bits he has made also. |
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akear
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Posts: 359
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: 1970 Door Differences |
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| For the 1970 year, there were two different window felt arrangements: 1) early 1970 w/ 1 felt and 7 anti-rattle bumps, and 2) late w/ 2 felts and 2 anti-rattle bumps. Is there a difference in the door shell itself? My '70 has the 2-felt arrangement. The driver door is shot and I picked up a used '70 door shell to replace it but I'm wondering if it is a correct match. I have not torn apart the current door on my car to compare and would prefer not to have to do that yet if someone has the answer for me. Thanks. |
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