Bay Window Crashworthiness--VW Documentation

[Bob D.]

We have had lots of discussions over the last couple of years about the crashworthiness, crash test results, etc. of Bay Window buses.

Here is some factual information I came across recently that I thought would be of interest, at least for '73-up bus owners. Although a collision in a bus is undoubtedly still something to dread, IMHO this info does make the Bay appear better in a crash than some may have assumed.

Text accompanying this photo says "From 1973, the Transporter was built to withstand standard U.S front impact tests for passenger cars, with the driver able to survive a head-on collision at 52km/h, despite there being no engine in the front--a remarkable feat."

The photos and information are from Volkswagen AG, as reproduced in the book "Volkswagens of the World," by Simon Glen. Double-click on the photo to enlarge it.

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[toddb_67]

Thanks for the info Bob. Now I can tell my wife not to be so paranoid about me driving the kids around in the bus. Who knows maybe my bus will see more than 1400 miles this year!
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1970 Pastel White Westfalia
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1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
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[panasonic90]

great news! thanks Bob
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[VWBusrepairman]

that is some interesting data- I had always wondered how safe I was in the bus. (didn't really care- when it's my time to go see John Muir, I can't do anything about it, be it in a tank or a bus)
This is another reason I like the orange bus with a large chrome emblum- easy visibility!

[ratwell]

That's the source of the 30mph figure I've been quoting. Thanks for scanning that image.
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'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab Sweden
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[penthink]

Great info. The only thing that was not figured into the equation was the advent of the hurried-and-inattentive-soccer-mom-in-the-speeding-Ford-Excursion. In my town at least, I can drive the three miles to work each day and spot at least seven of these menaces on their way to do whatever the hell it is they do. One thing is for certain: they never do anything without driving aggressively and way over the reasonable person's speed limit. That's what scares the sh*t out of me about my bus. But I suppose, when it's your time, it's your time. And hey, at least you don't have to succumb to the, "Hey! You could get hit by a bus tomorrow" thing. You get to be in the bus!

[Mike J. Goode]

That is why I will not buy a bus for a driver that is pre '73. The old ones are cool, but the front structure is so much better designed on the late models. I can personally attest to this. I was driving my '73 and got into a front offset crash with a Nissan Altima. My passenger and myself had our seatbelts on as always. I do not know how fast we were going to be hones, maybe 20 mph, the Nissan was moving maybe as quick but not for sure. All I know is that by the time I saw him it was too late to even hit the brakes, it was very loud, and my bus ended up facing 90 degrees from the direction I was going when we came to rest. After realizing I was OK and my passenger was OK, I was sure my bus was totalled-and I remember thinking it was at the worst time as it was about 2 weeks after I started my business and the bus was my sole service vehical (plumber). When we got out I was shocked to see that my bus's front bumper was mangled-and that is all. The Altima was destroyed. The whole front end was caved in, the left front suspension was ruined, and the engine was smoking. IT could not be driven-I found out later that it was totalled.

[69calibug]

Thats better than I thought. 30mph may not seem like a lot, but most modern cars that are crash tested look pretty totaled from a test at that speed. How many times do people actually go full speed into a wall. How much safer are that later Bays than the earlier ones? I never really worry about driving my cars. Like what was said before, when it's my time it's my time. Even sitting around all day in the shelter of your house is a risk, so worrying about that kind of stuff is pointless. I just buy good retactable belts. You can have the safest modern car in the world, and still be killed in a second by one of the SUV driving idiots that fill up our roads.
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'69 Beetle, '69 Beetle Convertible

[chabanais]

This is really semi-useless information.

Did it hit a flat wall or a car's bumper? How many G forces were exerted on the dummy? Did the dummy have the strap adjusted right? What kind of injuries would it suffer? A VW Bus is a frontal collision death trap. They're great cars, and I love mine, but a 30 year old photo won't make it safe.
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[Mike J. Goode]

The later ones-'73 and up are far safer than earlier ones. the front structure-not just the sheetmetal but the actual framework-was redesigned after negative publicity by a Ralph Nader article. In it Nader said that the VW bus so unsafe in a front end collision that it should not even be allowed to be produced. VW redesigned the front end of the bus, and it passed safety standards for automobiles-this was well before there were safety standards mandated for trucks/vans/etc.

is the bus a safe vehical to be in an accident in? That depends what year the bus is, and what it is getting into an accident with, and what speed-as with any vehical.

New buses from Brazil have to pass current standards. They have to pass them in the UK as well, as there are a few companies that offer them for sale-and they are registered as brand new '05 cars. They have to pass safety and emissions there.

Obviously, I would not want to get into a 50 mph head on with a Ford Super Duty-but they are safe for what they are ('73 and newer anyway), against a vehical of similar weight. My own accident above pretty much proves that point.

[Gary]

[Eaallred]

[Schmooey]

I assume a frontal collision in a bus is deadly. Luckily I am somewhat in control of the direction of my bus at it's fairly sedate speed.
That photo is reminiscent of the old testing procedures that assumed hitting a flat surface.
I totaled a Superbeetle in a head-on collision with a Mercury Cougar. The results were much less uniform, and the extra crumple space was a welcome luxury. I and my passenger still feel fortunate 20 years later.

[Bob D.]

[69calibug]

[cree]

Well, I did install a smaller driver's wheel that is further forward and am thinking about installing an airbag and have adjusted my seat back as far as possible with the seat belt very tight. I think these things minimise the frontal impact with the stearing wheel. I do think that my legs will still get hurt bad in an accident ( you could install an airbag or 2 at the lower part of your legs if you wanted to ) but if you pay attention to the two second rule ( allow 2 seconds between you and the car in front of you ), the chances of getting in an accident are greatly reduced. Cree, 79 Bay, BlueBlob

[TeamSpatula]

Wonder how the 68-71's fared in all that...not so well, I'm sure, but I recall looking over a friend of mine's 69 or so after his wife had a pretty nasty head on collision in it...she was fine, except for there her knee got banged by the dash coming inwards...it was a pretty serious accident, too...
then again, a friend of mine was driving a Suburu last week...hit a patch of ice at 55 mph, slid into the rear of a new Suburban...and totalled both of them completely...2 of the wheels got ripped completely off the Suburban...definitely not safer just because they're so huge...
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[Zeen]

Good info Bob, thanks for sharing. The crashworthiness is clearly dependent on getting the Y-frame involved in absorbing/resisting the impact. Not a problem with the flat wall they crashed in to, big problem if your front end is diving under hard braking as you aproach that Excursion bumper. Good arguement to 1) keep your bus at stock height and 2) replace those worn-out shocks.
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The consequences of your decisions should not be confused with fate.

[Amskeptic]

Shocks won't prevent dive. Just after your Lord's Prayer and before impact, get off the brakes. . . yeah right, that's what I always do
Lowering is such a not-good-idea, I don't know how to even explain it.
I can't explain the quest for a "unique look" it is not a unique look. It is not about looks or money or fame anyways.
Colin
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[ratwell]

My experience with replacing gas shocks on the rear with oil filled was reduced nose dive and improved braking performance. Makes sense that the gas shocks always want to extend. It gets worse when you mix/match shocks.
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'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab Sweden
Read the Baywindow FAQ