More sunroof questions. Gurus welcome!

[dub84]

Alright everyone... new to my sunroof questions includes the following:

In the picture, the arrow points to what I believe should be the guide that should be attached to the sunroof panel. To the right of the arrow... you will see the previous owner has loosened a large phillips head screw. I can see two holes (on either side of said screw) that match the "loose" guide. I am certain this is where it should be. My question I guess continues...

This "guide" for lack of a better word, moves freely down the rail. Would this indicate it is fubar'd and I need to look for a replacement... or is this how it is responding to being disconnected from the panel?

[/img]
The other guide is on the other side in same state but does not move as freely.

Finally, I have just R and R'd the actual crank mechanism with gear.... i.e cleaned it all out and regressed and it works like a charm. The worm gear looks to be pretty grungy, old hardened grease. What is the best way to clean this whole drive system up?


ALSO... Can someone confirm that this crank handle along with gear mechanism is the same as the vanagon. This looks identical (especially when looking at the cog that goes to the worm drive.

[WestyBob]

The handle looks either aftermarket, from another brand of vehicle or even possibly painted but doesn't look stock to me. All the originals I ever saw were off-white and plastic.

Check GoWesty, Bus Depot and Vancafe for sunroof crank handles as examples.

[dub84]

yep, this is from a volvo but the seller and other sellers who are selling the same crank say it is usable on vw sunroofs of the 80's.

"This is a Golde sunroof crank from a mid 1980s Volvo 740. It can also used on many VWs and Audis with manual sunroofs made during that time, including the Rabbits, Dashers, Sciroccos, Golfs and Jettas, Audis and Volvos. It is in good condition overall and works properly. The gearbox is included, but the handle can easily be separated and used on your existing gearbox."

Having just taken the gear mechanism out, I can't help but think it looks identical in every way.
I like the idea of the gear mechanism mating with a metal crank as opposed to a plastic handle and gear receiver.

Just thought I would ask, or take a chance.[/i]

[WestyBob]

Note there should be a white plastic strike plate the same shape as the metal mechanism, just a little bigger, that seats between the crank handle and mechanism. It's designed to cover up the cog hole (for appearances) and prevent the crank handle from catching the headliner.

You may be able to source this at one of the big vendors if you don't have it.

[dub84]

[tim_ha]

I just ran out and snapped a few photos of my sunroof. There are a total of four guides for the sunroof. One in each corner. They should all slide freely in the aluminum track. The front two are wider like this one.

All four guides are adjusted by screwing the fat, flat topped screw in or out and secured in place with the two screws to either side. The guide is snugged up against the head of the adjuster screw. You can see in this picture that the adjuster screw is peeking out from behind the guide.

Make sure to tighten the securing screws evenly so that the guide sits flat against the adjuster screw.

The rear guides are narrower so that they can be lifted through the notch in the aluminum track by the open/close mechanism.

The open/close mechanism is what is driven by the cables. For the most part, they simply pull the sunroof forward or push it rearward. The magic happens in the last little bit of travel of the cable. The sunroof hits some angled lifters in the back right when the rear guides line up with the notches in the track. This starts to lift the rear of the sunroof. Further pull from the cable then causes the open/close mechanism to pivot forward, pushing the rear of the sunroof up flush with the roof and "sealing" it closed.

I took my entire system apart, cleaned everything, greased and reassembled. I did not have access to a parts washer and spent quite a bit of time scrubbing the old hard grease out of the cable. A parts washer would probably be the best way to clean the cables though.

The system is described to some degree in the Bentley.

Hope this helps.
~Tim
_________________
1986 Syncro Sunroof EJ22
www.subagonsouth.com

[WestyBob]

Good job, Tim.

Looks like yours is really cleaned up.

[dub84]

[Phishman068]

I think, but am not sure, that the guides are the same as were used on a bunch of other vws, and at least last time I checked, were available.

I would not run a metal sunroof crank. The plastic ones can break (yes, even on a well adjusted and lubricated sunroof), and id rather the handle break them something else.
I have broken 2 and now carry a spare just incase one breaks and I need to shut the sunroof.
I have learned to only operate the sunroof when the vehicle is not in motion and I can give it my undivided attention. It's a large and fragile piece, rare, and awesome!
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936

"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry."

[tim_ha]

The screws that hold the guides in place are M5x0.8 and about 20mm long. Not sure that it matters, but they have a tapered end with a little cut so that they are somewhat self tapping. I don't know what that is called or how else to describe it.

I'm not sure if you got it, but NONE of the 4 guides attach to the drive cable. You can see the mechanism that does attach to the drive cable in this photo.

The mechanism is in the fully closed position in this picture. You can see the drive cable to the right in the aluminum track. You can also see the little cable end crimp which holds the mechanism I am talking about on the cable.

You can purchase new cables which come with the mechanism attached at van-cafe and possibly busdepot too.

~Tim
_________________
1986 Syncro Sunroof EJ22
www.subagonsouth.com

[FNGRUVN]

Your picture shows that the guide is missing. The Bentley goes into great detail on how to repair and adjust the sunroof. I'm not sure but some of these parts might interchange with Bay Window Bus parts. You might want to check the Bay Forum for info. VW put way more sunroofs in Bays than they did in Vanagons.
_________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[dub84]

[dub84]

Just wanted to send out a huge thanks to Tim and bob for their help!

Spent the day disassembling the sunroof... Which began by peeling all of the silicone off of what remained of the original seal.

I then had to wrestle with the worm drives themselves. Both drives were stuck in the tubes with rust and hardened grease. A few good wacks to the vise grips holding them... And bam, They sprung ( and without bending them)

The worm gears looked super gnarly so I set them in solvent and moved on to the tracks themselves and the green tube thingy up front. Spent almost 2 hours just cleaning them... Pipe cleaner, a coat hanger and plenty of rags, brake cleaner and degreaser.

I then degreased the sunroof area.

Spent almost three hours wire brushing the worm drives (because I am too cheap to buy new ones) and they came out splendidly. Wire brushed the guides...

Regreased everything and installed... I now have worm drives that work!!!!

Tomorrow I will clean the sunroof panel, attach the new seal and adjust the panel accordingly

No pictures as I was far too excited to fte going. Thanks for the help guys! One tin top,sunroof saved!