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German Chocolate heads for the hills
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:53 pm    Post subject: German Chocolate heads for the hills Reply with quote

A few days ago, I had really quite enough of the damned railroad, and taking advantage of the government mandated time off for rest for working too much, I took German Chocolate high up into the Sierra Nevada mountains near my home. It was about a two and a half to three hour drive from my home to where I wanted to go fishing with a one night camp out: Courtright reservoir, about 8,170 feet above sea level. High enough as mountains go, but certainly there are places we can drive our buses that are much higher. At some point, I'm confident we will read about some Synchro that did donuts at the top of Mt. Everest, but for now, all we can do is wait. Laughing

About an hour out of my home, I turned to face the climb, about 3 or 4 miles east of Prather, California at the foot of what the locals call the "Four Lanes." The day was nice, probably about 80 to 85 degrees with threatening weather promised at the higher elevations.

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So, no need to stop here, right?! Laughing

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I am well into the long ten mile pull up the four lanes, and my doubts about getting a speeding ticket were easily confirmed. Top speed in third gear was 35 MPH.

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Not far from where the four lane highway reverts back to winding roads, I noticed what seemed to be a little more play in my brake pedal, and a little less power from the engine. I started to wonder if it had to do with the altitude as I figured to be above 6,000 feet by this point.

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I stopped at Cressman's General store, about five miles from the town of Shaver Lake, Calif. but noticed nothing unusual except what felt like maybe a little softer brake action. Nothing amiss in the engine compartment, and I had good response on acceleration. In my ignorance, I chalked it up to altitude, but did not really have a warm fuzzy on this. I never had any other car react to high altitude with soft brakes, but resolved to investigate further when I got to camp. I figured that even though I had fuel injection, I was not convinced it could determine fuel/air ratio at high altitudes due to the lack of an oxygen sensor, so I presumed that it was running a little rich.

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By the time I got to the McKinley Grove of Giant Sequoias for a little rest, I was starting to think about the very real possibility of a brake servo/booster diaphragm rupture, where I was getting a vacuum leak which caused the slightly off performance, and noticed that my brake fluid was just a little bit lower than I remembered. Think I bet the required vacuum was sucking the brake fluid through the rupture and into the engine's intake plenum.

Not one to let the lack of braking get in my way of a pleasurable high mountain drive, I simply plugged the vacuum port on the intake plenum for the servo unit, and carried on. Wink

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This is fun little stretch of road, where I quickly got up to max speed (good brakes be damned) and the rain and cool wind was just really special. I love this stuff, and am NOT looking forward to another shitty San Joaquin summer!

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By about 6:00 PM, I arrived at the dam of Courtright reservoir. This location is far less visited than places like Shaver or Huntington lakes, and is nested between the John Muir and Dinky Lakes Wilderness areas of the Sierra National Forest. Growing up in the bowels of thickly populated Southern California, I could only dream of such places as seen in a Mepp's fishing catalogue. With German Chocolate at the ready (sans convenient braking), I easily shooed myself into the woods! Very Happy Very Happy

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On a funny note, this was actually the very first time I got to sleep in my bus overnight! The other trips had mom and daughter in the bus while myself and my son slept in the tent. Very cool to simply climb in, draw the curtains, fold out the Z bed and snuggle into the sleeping back while it frosted up overnight.

The following morning, I made a hot breakfast at the edge of the dam. It is my understanding that Pacific Gas and Electric operates a hydroelectric power plant operation between Courtright reservoir at 8,170 feet in elevation and empties into Wishon reservoir far below and to the west. During the evening hours when electricity rates are lowest, the utility company pumps the water back up into Courtright for the next day's generation of electricity at premium rates.

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Here is what I got myself into, and the bus easily motored me around the edge of the lake, while providing total interior comfort when any high mountain thunderstorm threatened to get my lunch wet.

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On the way back home, I stopped for a little break near these waterfalls, and noticed that my brake fluid was pretty stable, so I figured my band-aid braking method would get me home.
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The drive home was really uneventful. I spent $6.95 for a pint of brake fluid at the Dinky Creek General Store, but it didn't really do a whole lot at this point, as there was too much air in the system. I simply kept the overall speed down, downshifted a lot more than ususal, and started braking early. I used the parking brake a few times to augment my boot mashing on the pedal, but logged about 185 miles roundtrip regardless. I haven't had a chance to look into the exact nature of my brake issues, but given that I have not serviced the master cylinder or inspected the original 1977 servo, I will not be surprised of find some cracked rubber failure of some kind.

As it stands now, the only brake servicing I've previously done was to thoroughly flush the system, adjust the parking brake and rear drum brakes. On a positive note, my brake warning light worked! Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Wasted youth on Sun May 25, 2014 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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richparker
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome trip and pics. Thanks for sharing.
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you made it back down safely ;0)

Thanks for the tip, will have to check out Courtright reservoir, looks like a nice drive… did you stay at a camp site?
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice trip! Those trees are huge!
Pity about the brakes but still fun I would imagine!
Thanks for sharing!
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lionhart94010 wrote:
Glad you made it back down safely ;0)

Thanks for the tip, will have to check out Courtright reservoir, looks like a nice drive… did you stay at a camp site?


There are a few campsites at Courtright. They are fee-based, first come, first served. I think they are like $16 a night, but of course, I said screw that, and parked down at the boat launch ramp and shut my doors! Cool

There are dry bathrooms, and by mid to late summer, the campgrounds finally get the water bibbs turned back on. Otherwise bring in your own water, or gather it from the lake but purify it. Wee Mee Kute and Trapper Springs are usually really quiet campgrounds, and Marmot Rock has the best walking access to the lake for trout fishing/playing. At the back of the lake, you can park your bus at Cliff Lake trailhead and hike into the wilderness using trail 26E09, which connects to trail 27E33 and then it's on into the thick of it, right!
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great trip and great pics! Thanks for sharing.
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the camp site info-

Hopefully we will take my 2.5yold on her fist camping trip this year, will be using a tent as I’ve been re-building our house, and wasn’t worth registering and insuring my westy as I have little time, however I am hoping to take my westy up there next year at least half a doze times…
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you haven't done it, be ready for the possibility of doing a complete brake overhaul. I had a master cylinder fail last summer coming down off Mt. Hood, leaking fluid into the booster. And when I got into things more, I found one of the rear wheel cylinder had been weeping and contaminated teh shoes .. and the RF caliper wasn't working smoothly .. and the drums were scored .. and the rotors would wind up too thin if turned .. and I might as well replace all the hoses and springs while I'm at it..

Kept the OG brake light switches, and was able to flush out the booster and save it, but everything else is new. Watch out, the "German" ATE master cylinder I got was made in Czech Republic, and the "German" ATE wheel cylinders came from Italy...
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful mountain scenery! Thanks for sharing, but sorry to hear about the mechanical trouble. I guess one way to shake the bugs out is to just head out and drive. Hope it doesn't turn out to be too much work to remedy.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tristessa wrote:
If you haven't done it, be ready for the possibility of doing a complete brake overhaul. I had a master cylinder fail last summer coming down off Mt. Hood, leaking fluid into the booster. And when I got into things more, I found one of the rear wheel cylinder had been weeping and contaminated teh shoes .. and the RF caliper wasn't working smoothly .. and the drums were scored .. and the rotors would wind up too thin if turned .. and I might as well replace all the hoses and springs while I'm at it..

Kept the OG brake light switches, and was able to flush out the booster and save it, but everything else is new. Watch out, the "German" ATE master cylinder I got was made in Czech Republic, and the "German" ATE wheel cylinders came from Italy...


Thanks for your insight...and the warning about "Geer'min" parts (that's just a word they print on the box, right?).

I have no doubt your experience is a prediction of what I will find. Your scenario is exactly how it went down for me when I tried to figure out why the right front wheel was locked up on my '73 bus more than a year ago. Think That investigation turned into a damned near complete overhaul! Shocked

On this bus, I have replaced all the rubber brake lines, flushed the system and adjusted the brakes. I measured the drums and rotors, and I am pretty sure they will not be able to be turned, but for now they meet spec. I will likely rebuild the master cylinder myself, but am going to need to buy a re-manned servo unit, most likely. Wheel cylinders and calipers still function and don't leak, so we'll see how that goes.
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool trippin' mr.! I just picked up a vintage tackle box full of fun, I'm going to go fishing in my bus soon too! Cool
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject: Air in the line? Reply with quote

I recently made a trip to Palomar Mountain which is only about 5k feet in altitude and the trip up was pleasant. However, going down, I developed air in my brake lines. What would cause that? The higher you go, the more those bubbles expand and you will either contend with it or have a disaster. What I figured is that the bleeder stem does not sufficiently prevent air from passing down the length of the threads and making it more difficult to bleed any air out of the lines. What I did was use Yellow Teflon tape you can get at Lowes or Home Depot and wrap the threads until it stops leaking. Once you bleed your brakes, you close the stem and that should help.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had just a few minutes to fool with the brake problem this afternoon. Can't hold any kind of vacuum at all when I put the hand held vacuum pump on the line that connects to the intake plenum. Noticed idle speed changes slightly when I apply the brakes when the servo booster is re-connected, indicating a vacuum leak. Crawled underneath, and did not notice any leakage anywhere. No fluid dripping out of the vacuum tubing when pulled back off the intake boot at the engine. Brake fluid reservoir still topped off, but I expected that because this was just a brief test.

Looks like it is probably time to remove the servo unit and master cylinder. They've been under there since 1977 by the looks of things!
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasted youth/adulthood wrote:
No fluid dripping out of the vacuum tubing when pulled back off the intake boot at the engine. Brake fluid reservoir still topped off,


Why might you have thought there might be fluid (brake fluid?) dripping out at the engine?

The only fluid in the vac line would be if the seal on the nose of the master cylinder has failed. And you would have known that if you had been adding a fair amount of brake fluid but couldn't find any external brake system leak. And it does take a lot of fluid for the booster to fill up to the level of the vac line connection on the booster. Then the brake fluid gets sucked into the engine and you still might not find any fluid dripping out of the line.

FIrst thing to do is confirm there is a vacuum leak. Shut the engine off and there should still be vacuum in the booster. If no vacuum then find the leak. It might be in the booster or the line. Pull the line off of the booster and plug the end of the line. Shut the engine off and there should still be some vacuum in the line.

Second thing is pull off the master cylinder to see if the O-ring at the booster is still intact. And inspect to see if the master has leaked fluid into the booster. If so then replace both items.



Cool pics Wink
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desertbusman wrote:
Why might you have thought there might be fluid (brake fluid?) dripping out at the engine?


I figured if it was a bad enough leak, then there might be a couple of drops of fluid at the end of the line, at least. But I should have figured there wouldn't be, because the reservoir was still basically full! Here I go, jumping to conclusions...Embarassed My lack of knowledge about the internal functions of the servo are becoming quite evident.

Desertbusman wrote:
The only fluid in the vac line would be if the seal on the nose of the master cylinder has failed. And you would have known that if you had been adding a fair amount of brake fluid but couldn't find any external brake system leak. And it does take a lot of fluid for the booster to fill up to the level of the vac line connection on the booster. Then the brake fluid gets sucked into the engine and you still might not find any fluid dripping out of the line.

First thing to do is confirm there is a vacuum leak. Shut the engine off and there should still be vacuum in the booster. If no vacuum then find the leak. It might be in the booster or the line. Pull the line off of the booster and plug the end of the line. Shut the engine off and there should still be some vacuum in the line.


Later last night I started to wonder...well, more hope then wonder....if the vacuum leak might actually be from a different location than my presumption that it is the servo unit.

Desertbusman wrote:
Second thing is pull off the master cylinder to see if the O-ring at the booster is still intact. And inspect to see if the master has leaked fluid into the booster. If so then replace both items.


Thanks for these tips; I will get on this within the next couple of days. Back to work like a madman again.


Desertbusman wrote:
Cool pics Wink


Thanks! I'd live up there or at the beach if I could! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasted youth/adulthood wrote:
Crawled underneath, and did not notice any leakage anywhere. No fluid dripping out of the vacuum tubing when pulled back off the intake boot at the engine.

Master cylinder leaking into the booster, and possibly the booster itself is shot. The brake booster can hold a *lot* of fluid before it gets up high enough to leak out the MC/booster junction (if the o-ring is shot) or get sucked to the intake through the tube -- when I tore into things after my failure last year, I think I poured nearly a quart out of the booster and it hadn't reached the MC hole yet.

Yeah, I kept adding fluid on the trip home, so I'd have *some* braking if/when I needed it, rather than just let it go dry. Figured if things were already shot...
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tristessa wrote:
--- when I tore into things after my failure last year, I think I poured nearly a quart out of the booster and it hadn't reached the MC hole yet...


Shocked That's a lot of fluid.

I called these guys this morning based on another thread where they were recommended:

http://www.karpspowerbrake.com/

They are close enough to me where shipping shouldn't be too horrible, and the fellow I spoke with seemed pretty knowledgeable. The price quoted for rebuilding the servo unit is cheaper than buying a re-manned unit from my FLAPS...and who knows what I'd be getting there, right?

Still need to properly diagnose this problem, though. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your CHT's must be way low if you're running German Chocolate heads for the hills.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rustybutterknife wrote:
Your CHT's must be way low if you're running German Chocolate heads for the hills.


Laughing You slay me. I'm usually pretty crafty and see things like that. Nice catch! Cool
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