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Summers420us
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Joined: June 14, 2010
Posts: 759
Location: Amissville, Virginia
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 Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Did it fix your oil consumption?
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1997 EVC
1988 2WD Westfalia with OE 2.1 (R.I.P.) |
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jberger
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Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Summers420us wrote: |
| Did it fix your oil consumption? |
It definitely reduced it, buy my story is much more complicated. I installed piston squirters in my case and believe the hone on my bored out cylinders was not aggressive enough to seat the rings properly, all the way around. It is all an experiment though. I did not plumb the return line from the Provent back to the case so I could accumulate and measure the separated oil from the system. It varies a bit as I'm not consistent between checking it, usually a half pint. Some of that is water. On an off road trip in death valley I noticed it running differently and checked the filter. The oil had accumulated up to the level of the intake return line... Emptied it out and all was good. That may have been from rock crawling up canyons though.. Or the two days spent on Mundane Mesa Highway in granny gear.
The directions with the provent are counter intuitive though. The outlet is the lower orifice the inlet on the top. I read where Subi and American muscle folks were hooking up backwards which would allow ALOT of fluid build up capacity. In my installation though, the hose routing worked better following the directions. |
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matkinson13
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Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Regarding RHPAW's post in May 2008 (first page of the thread) regarding the mini-filter on the end of the breather hose and plugging the intake hose hole...did we ever determine if this is an ok idea?
I'm inclined to install the mini-filter & plug the intake hose on my rebuilt engine as I'm not sure of the tower's condition (I'm assuming it's shot) and its functionality. I also don't like the idea of introducing oily air into the intake stream, although the later suggestion to vent to the airbox pre-filter may be option two.
Thanks...
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GONE: 2003 Honda Odyssey - the missus'
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52540
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| matkinson13 wrote: |
Regarding RHPAW's post in May 2008 (first page of the thread) regarding the mini-filter on the end of the breather hose and plugging the intake hose hole...did we ever determine if this is an ok idea?
I'm inclined to install the mini-filter & plug the intake hose on my rebuilt engine as I'm not sure of the tower's condition (I'm assuming it's shot) and its functionality. I also don't like the idea of introducing oily air into the intake stream, although the later suggestion to vent to the airbox pre-filter may be option two.
Thanks... |
There is little that has added more longevity to an automotive engine than adding a PCV system did. Between getting rid of leaded fuel and adding the PCV engine life doubled and quadrupled in a few years time. There is a reason engine warranties used to only be for 12,000 miles.  |
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matkinson13
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Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:21 am Post subject: |
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So, and forgive me if I've missed the main idea here, but are you saying that the mini-filter/plug is a GOOD idea (it's a suitable PCV substitute) or a BAD one (it in no way replicates PCV/original breather tower function)?
If Operation MINIFILTER isn't a good one, what's the thought on venting the breather tower to the airbox pre-filter? Again, trying to cut down on oily vapors in the intake.
Thanks...
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GONE: 2003 Honda Odyssey - the missus'
2008 Subaru Impreza - daily driver |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52540
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:41 am Post subject: |
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IMO a system that draws air out of the crankcase is better than one that does not. By connecting into the S boot the original system does cause a light draw on the ventilation system. VW did add the restrictor on later engines which would have negated the draw from the S boot though.
Aftermarket systems that use catch cans and such are added for racing use where the engine is at full throttle much of the time. Are they as good as the stock system for street use where there is extensive part throttle use and long oil change intervals? No sure. 
I really prefer a system that draws enough air out of the crankcase that it can draw additional fresh air in, but the WBXer motor doesn't have this and it wouldn't be all that easy to add. Ray Greenwood has a system he added to his 412 D-jet engine that does add extra draw onto the crankcase and will probably draw in some fresh air especially during stop and go type conditions. A similar system could probably be built for a WBXer engine. |
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matkinson13
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Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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WT - I understand what you're saying about actively drawing air out of the crankcase. If I've got this straight, and there's a very good chance that I don't, Operation MINIFILTER doesn't seem harmful to the engine, even though there's no active air draw. It allows crankcase venting and as long as the intake boot hole is plugged, then all is well. If the tower breather system is busted anyway, does it make much difference?
RHPAW, have you noticed any ill effects from your setup?
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Illegitimi non carborundum.
GONE: 1984 Vanagon GL, 4 sp (natch) - new money pit
GONE: 2003 Honda Odyssey - the missus'
2008 Subaru Impreza - daily driver |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| matkinson13 wrote: |
| WT - I understand what you're saying about actively drawing air out of the crankcase. If I've got this straight, and there's a very good chance that I don't, Operation MINIFILTER doesn't seem harmful to the engine, even though there's no active air draw. It allows crankcase venting and as long as the intake boot hole is plugged, then all is well. If the tower breather system is busted anyway, does it make much difference? |
The Vanagon breather system seems to work just fine with the diaphragm in the breather tower blown out. If you don't like the stock, you will just have to give the Minifilter a try and see how it works.
A note of warning, Weatherbill tried to improve on stock a few years ago and ended up blowing a good bit of the oil out of his crankcase, I did the same decades ago when I tried to improve on the Type 1 system. Watch you oil level carefully until you get a feel for your system. |
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matkinson13
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Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a plan...
I'm not looking to do anything fancy - probably something along the lines of what RHPAW did: A simple filter on the end of the breather hose and plug the intake boot hole.
It'll be a while, but I'll report back with that I find.
Thanks for the insight.
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GONE: 1984 Vanagon GL, 4 sp (natch) - new money pit
GONE: 2003 Honda Odyssey - the missus'
2008 Subaru Impreza - daily driver |
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dhaavers
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 8456
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| matkinson13 wrote: |
| RHPAW, have you noticed any ill effects from your setup? |
He hasn't been on the site for a couple years: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=98201
Good luck with your project!
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"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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matkinson13
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Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm...good thing I wasn't holding my breath waiting on a response. 
Thanks. Like I said, it'll take a while at my current rate but I'll post up results.
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davideric9
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Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 1014
Location: Oakland CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Sad thing, this being rotted out and NLA, so I was thinking, with the little vent hole on the atmosphere side of the diaphragm , and the diaphragm being rotted away, extra air if being allowed into the system. Should we plug the small vent hole since the diaphragm is missing?
I know I am losing oil from this little hole as I once wrapped a paper towel around the tower held in place with a rubber band and after a while the top of the towel was oily. I just wanted to make sure the tower wasn't leaking from the bottom.
Plug the little hole at the top????
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1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012) |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52540
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| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| davideric9 wrote: |
| Plug the little hole at the top???? |
It won't hurt anything if you do, though I doubt that it leaks enough to make a noticeable difference in how your engine runs.
On later models that already have the orifice in the breather hose I don't see how a bad diaphragm could have much affect on the engine operation, while adding an orifice to an earlier engine would be a plus. |
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davideric9
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Joined: January 21, 2009
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Location: Oakland CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Breather towers are back in stock, although I understand these are aftermarket made in China. I'm concerned that the new towers do not have a vent hole on the atmosphere side of the diaphram. Is this a redesign? an error in reproduction? my inability to understand this part? does this repro have a diaphram at all?
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1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012) |
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1vw4x4
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2005
Posts: 472
Location: Pgh. PA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: |
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These breather towers may be back in stock but for $80 plus dollars and made in china Its a total waste of money.
Did any one come up with a good solution?
I'm thinking of adapting a Golf/Jetta unit to the vanagon boxer engine. |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Plenty of good OEM ones in a box at my shop.
I'll post an ad. |
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keithwwalker
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Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 886
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:10 am Post subject: |
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I agree, I just got a new tower from one of the big Vanagon vendors, and I really doubt it will work as VW intended.
The key to the whole action is that little vent above the diaphram.
If you test an original Bosch unit, the way to do it is to take it off the engine, then cap the bottom on a flat surface. Then you suck the air out of the tower (from the outlet vent that goes to the S-boot), and you should feel the diaphragm move down and stop; at that point it should get much harder to pull air out.
But this doesn't happen with the replacement unit, the diaphragm doesn't move at all.
I may drill a little hole in the cap top, but it will come plugged up after a while.
Or, I may carefully drill a hole for a nipple up top such that a hose can be connected for a drop - that way it won't clog.
Looking at the Mann ProVent, it looks like an excellent system, because it is cleanable and maintainable. I just may keep the aftermarket tower for ease of hose connecting to the ProVent.
| 1vw4x4 wrote: |
These breather towers may be back in stock but for $80 plus dollars and made in china Its a total waste of money.
Did any one come up with a good solution?
I'm thinking of adapting a Golf/Jetta unit to the vanagon boxer engine. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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teej
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Posts: 906
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:15 am Post subject: |
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I bought one of the new towers back in December or so. After installation I started noticing more little oil weepy seeps at various places on this engine. Could just be a coincidence but I began to suspect increased pressure in the crankcase. The diaphragm on the old one was, surprisingly, apparently intact as well as different from the new one so I put the old one back on.
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tencentlife
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Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10151
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: |
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I've had a Provent hooked up with drainback since early this year and although it had only a small effect on oil usage with this engine, it does intercept all the oil mist and water so the intake tract stays squeaky clean. Oil mist taken in with the fuel-air charge is a heavy contributor to detonation, so that by itself is a good reason to add this simple system.
Initially I did not put in a drainback line so I could hand-drain the trapped liquid to see its composition; it was consistently 2/3rds water, 1/3 gassy-smelling oil. In all likelihood the bulk of these fluids were intercepted during warmup periods.
Once I had a solid take on what it was catching, I went ahead and added a drainback line to a banjo fitting screwed into a modded oil pressure relief valve plug, with Mann's recommended check valve immediately below the separator vessel. So now it's a closed-loop system that requires no regular maintenance or intervention. The filter element inside the vessel should probably be replaced at some long interval, but these units are so new that last I read their literature, Mann doesn't even have a recommended interval for that yet.
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