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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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 Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: Stutters, gags, dies, only in 3rd - SOLVED |
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Just limped into a show.
77 FI Camper. Idles fine, 1st is fine, 2nd is good, 3rd under load bus starts to hesitate and die if I don't go back to 2nd. Died twice in 3rd and started right back up.
Fuel pressure, timing, etc have been checked.
Have a fuel filter to swap, could that only cause a problem in 3rd? In another thread I was talking about hesitation and some said maybe water in the tank so I added fuel line anti freeze.
What's different in 3rd? Hmmmmm....
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/
Last edited by kkjellquist on Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42988
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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load - there is very little load in 1st and 2nd. Check for a vacuum leak.
_________________
 Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| veloandy wrote: |
I just got my 81 Westy running and have been in total vacuum-leak-finding purgatory.
I ended up throwing up my hands and taking it to Rocky Mountain Westy here in Fort Collins...after burning through 2.5 hours of labor they found a few more vacuum leaks...but I still had too many vacuum leaks for it to idle reliably.
So, I finally found a cheap and totally thorough way to find all the remaining vacuum leaks thanks to http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/081547.html
All I did was get a quart paint can, sloppily solder a hose barb and an air compressor quick disconnect fitting to the lid:
Then I pulled the AFM, plugged the S-boot with a beer bottle, and hooked some cheap aquarium tubing from the hose barb on my can to the vacuum advance barb:
Then I fired up my air compressor, set the hose pressure to 5 PSI (verified the pressure was low enough that I could stop the flow with my finger), and hooked the air compressor hose to the barb on the lid, and set the can on the ground ('cause it was going to get hot!). Finally I got an old greasy rag (that used to be a cotton T-shirt), soaked it with denatured alcohol, set it on fire, and threw it in the can! When it started burning and smoking well I hammered the lid on the can with a rubber mallet:
And...low and behold, smoke squirted out of my two remaining vacuum leaks! From where the metal flange to the crankcase breather wasn't pushed all the way into the S-boot, and from the Vacuum T-fitting between the brake booster and the decel valve!
I patched those up, tested it again, and NO MORE VACUUM LEAKS! It finally runs and idles well enough that I think I'm going to try finally get it emissions tested on Monday. Wish me luck!
I only wish I had rigged this up earlier! Hopefully this post will help some sambanista in the future!
Yes...it's a good idea to have a fire extinguisher handy when doing this... |
You can use for fuel.
Wood Pellet Smoker Fuel.
KwikStart Smoker Pellet.
Card board egg crates. |
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Left the show and everything seemed cool....after about 15 mins of driving I started seeing the symptoms again.
Basically to recap;
Idle is perfect
1st is always OK
2nd is OK most of the time...if I shift early and lug the engine just a tad is loses power and wants to stall
3rd is always bad, even when shifting into it higher RPMs
Luckily I was close to home and could get home in 1st and 2nd.
I'll do a proper vacuum check and post the findings.
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/ |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52763
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Could be the resistance strip in your AFM is gouged a bit or the wiper isn't making good contact . Take you meter and see if it shows normal resistance over the whole range of movement. |
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Checked the AFM..on the black strip you could see some where but definitely not worn through. Still I adjusted the plate to get better contact on the wiper.
Also found the injector grounds to be very crusty and loose. I'm talking about the three wires grounded under the left intake runner. I replaced the connectors and they are now cleaner and snug.
I also took the opportunity to replace the ground strap on the battery.
So...after all this I take the bus out and it's fine at first...but the problem resurfaced after 10 mins or so. Hesitation and bucking a bit at lower RPMs under load (slight uphills) in 2nd and more so 3rd.
Still haven't completely ruled out a vacuum leak. Waiting to borrow gauge from a friend.
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/ |
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Decided to test the AFM for resistance per Bentley....I'm no electrical engineer, but tell me if this is correct.
Set analog meter to 1x Ohms...touch leads together and use dial to get 0.
I then touched the leads to pins 6 & 9 and still get 0.
Is my AFM FUBAR?
Would the bus still operate in this condition and cause what I am experiencing?
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/ |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52763
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| kkjellquist wrote: |
Decided to test the AFM for resistance per Bentley....I'm no electrical engineer, but tell me if this is correct.
Set analog meter to 1x Ohms...touch leads together and use dial to get 0.
I then touched the leads to pins 6 & 9 and still get 0.
Is my AFM FUBAR?
Would the bus still operate in this condition and cause what I am experiencing? |
The resistance between pins 6 and 9 should vary as you open the flap in the AFM. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42988
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: |
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/afc_fi...Manual.pdf
Also - Is it possible the TSII has failed?
Does it have a catalytic on it? When you turn the engine off do you hear a whoosh sound?
We've had cases where the tank venting system failed. Try removing the gas cap, put it back, and see if the issue goes away for another 10 minutes.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
Also - Is it possible the TSII has failed?
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TSII was only finger tight! I replaced it last Fall and it must worked itself loose. I torqued, checked the connection, and took 'er for a spin and it appears the issue has been resolved.
Not 100% sure, but I couldn't get it to stutter or hesitate. I was able to do it at will previously.
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/ |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52763
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Use either some never seize on the TSII threads or a product like no-corrode and then tighten it down sufficiently that it will not back out. Don't go hog wild on the tightening though. |
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Gonna go ahead and call this one solved. To wrap up if anyone searches and finds this thread;
Symptoms - Small hesitations that over time turn into major power loss, stuttering, stalling, etc. Bus will start fine, idle fine, and drive OK until it warms up. Once warm in 2nd and 3rd gear under load symptoms begin
Cause & Resolution - TSII (temp sensor II)is either bad or in my case had worked itself loose to less than finger tight. Test, replace, torque TSII.
(TSII is threaded into the head next to the #3 plug and usually is a black wire w/ female blade connector)
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/ |
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