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HerNameIsRita
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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 Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:02 pm Post subject: Gas Smell When Filling Up |
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I purchased my 77' bus back in August and I've had problems with gas fumes overwhelming the inside cabin after filling up. I recently had the filler neck hose replace but the smell continues to appear, which leads me to believe the problem is caused by a deteriorating filler hose. This weekend seems like a good time to remove the firewall and check the hoses and breather pipes. I'm hoping the fuel lines don't need replacing because that seems overwhelming.
The only thing I'm not sure of is this part right here. What is this part called and why is it so grimy? It smells like a lawn mower
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BUSBOSS
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 2161
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Does it smell only after filling up all the way? If so, check the segment of breather fuel hose up and behind the spare tire well.
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All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten) |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 24497
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Fuel smells lead to fire. Stop driving Rita until you find the cause.
If your fuel lines are from 1977, they all need replacing. It's easy, cheap, and important. Take some pix, ask questions here, and let's get it done.
Don't forget nitrile gloves to keep gas off your hands..
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5175
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:56 am Post subject: |
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That thing there is the fuel pressure regulator, left over from when your bus had fuel injection. Not necessary if you are using carburetors.
I'm sorry to say that if you are troubled by the idea of changing fuel lines way back up in there, I can assure you your future will be equally clouded on many other important tasks.
Changing out all of those fuel and evap. lines is a critical maintenance procedure.
You did see this thread, right?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=266181 |
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MaritimeBay
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2013
Posts: 120
Location: Fredericton NB
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like it could be those tank filler hoses for sure. But when were the fuel lines last changed?
Replacing the fuel lines is not as overwhelming as it may seem at first glance. You can get fuel line kits from Scott at GermanSupply. All lines will be pre-cut and contain all the proper clamps you need to do the job. Since your bus is converted from FI to carbs there may be some slight differences in fuel hose length, but that would be as easy as buying an extra foot of fuel hose and a few extra clamps just in case.
I bought my bus in Sept of 2013 and swapped out the fuel lines last April. It was super easy once you break it down into steps and read from other Samba members experiences on here. My word of advice if you do choose to do your own fuel lines would be to fully drain the tank before doing the job. I thought I could be quick enough to swap the tank outlet hoses with minimal spillage and I was totally wrong.
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1977 2.0L FI Westfalia.
They call my home the land of snow. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 24497
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| MaritimeBay wrote: |
Sounds like it could be those tank filler hoses for sure. But when were the fuel lines last changed?
Replacing the fuel lines is not as overwhelming as it may seem at first glance. You can get fuel line kits from Scott at GermanSupply. All lines will be pre-cut and contain all the proper clamps you need to do the job. Since your bus is converted from FI to carbs there may be some slight differences in fuel hose length, but that would be as easy as buying an extra foot of fuel hose and a few extra clamps just in case.
I bought my bus in Sept of 2013 and swapped out the fuel lines last April. It was super easy once you break it down into steps and read from other Samba members experiences on here. My word of advice if you do choose to do your own fuel lines would be to fully drain the tank before doing the job. I thought I could be quick enough to swap the tank outlet hoses with minimal spillage and I was totally wrong. |
If you can access the tank drain this isn't so bad.
Have the first piece of fuel line cut to length, golf tee installed and clamped.
Pull off old, finger onto drain pipe.
Stuff new fuel line onto pipe and clamp.
Now you can wood clamp the new fuel line closed to continue the install
I've done this absorbing less than 20 ml of fuel onto a work rag.
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Bala
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003
Posts: 2637
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Abscate wrote: |
If you can access the tank drain this isn't so bad.
Have the first piece of fuel line cut to length, golf tee installed and clamped.
Pull off old, finger onto drain pipe.
Stuff new fuel line onto pipe and clamp.
Now you can wood clamp the new fuel line closed to continue the install
I've done this absorbing less than 20 ml of fuel onto a work rag. |
That is what I do. I've never lost much fuel. BUT, if you are at all hesitant, just drain the tank. I bet you have a Weber progressive. If so, go to O'reillys and get some Gates Barricade hose and a fresh filter (place the filter inline just after the tank) and you can have this done in about half an hour. When I did mine I replaced a major section of the line with metal brake tube to get rid of some rubber. You can get a tubing bender at O'Reillys too. Oh, and get some proper fuel line hose clamps. I ordered mine online. As I remember it's hard to find the correct size in parts stores.
And, that little hose up by the spare tire well will spill fuel all over your bus, not just vapor, so it's pretty important too make sure it's in good shape. It's honestly not as difficult to replace as people say (in my opinion). Get the old one off, wipe down the metal tubes, cut the new tube to length, put a very tiny amount of grease on the metal tubes and slip the new stuff on. Easy!
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1976 Westy
1966 Beetle |
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HerNameIsRita
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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So I tried removing the firewall today but I came into a problem. All the screws are removed (even the hidden ones) but the firewall seems to be stuck behind this black plate. Do I have to lower the engine in order to remove the firewall?
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kkjellquist
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Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| HerNameIsRita wrote: |
. Do I have to lower the engine in order to remove the firewall?
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Some will say yes, but I also have a 77 and was able to remove and reinstall the firewall without lowering the engine one bit. You certainly have to muscle it a tad and ~maybe~ bend a little metal, but it can be done. My firewall went right back into place and you can't tell it was ever out.
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/ |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5175
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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If you are going far enough to remove the firewall... then you might as well go far enough to pull and clean the tank, replace your fuel filler neck (likely cracked with age) and associated fuel lines in the evap system.
Some people don't pull the engine for all that, but I have and always will because I feel it is easier that way. I pull the engine and trans as a unit.
Don't forget... there are two screws on the firewall that are somewhat hard to find. One on each side, from the bottom, heading straight up (point to roof). These seem to cause a lot of angst with folks. |
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HerNameIsRita
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| kkjellquist wrote: |
| HerNameIsRita wrote: |
. Do I have to lower the engine in order to remove the firewall?
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Some will say yes, but I also have a 77 and was able to remove and reinstall the firewall without lowering the engine one bit. You certainly have to muscle it a tad and ~maybe~ bend a little metal, but it can be done. My firewall went right back into place and you can't tell it was ever out. |
Did you remove the carburetor at all? That seems to be in the way too. |
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| HerNameIsRita wrote: |
Did you remove the carburetor at all? That seems to be in the way too. |
I'm fuel injected....never owned a non-FI bus, but I think the answer is Yes you have to remove the carb.
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/ |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42986
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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On an FI bus there is a supply and a return line to the tank. Make sure that the return line was removed and plugged. If they left it attached to the tank side of the Fuel Pressure Regulator you circled, gasoline could be dripping out of the Fuel Pressure Regulator if it has rusted thru or the diaphragm perforated. That may be why the device smells like gas. Also check the vent hose under the spare tire. Those are hard to see and often break, causing gasoline to leak.
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 Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
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Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
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1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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Bala
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003
Posts: 2637
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| HerNameIsRita wrote: |
| kkjellquist wrote: |
| HerNameIsRita wrote: |
. Do I have to lower the engine in order to remove the firewall?
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Some will say yes, but I also have a 77 and was able to remove and reinstall the firewall without lowering the engine one bit. You certainly have to muscle it a tad and ~maybe~ bend a little metal, but it can be done. My firewall went right back into place and you can't tell it was ever out. |
Did you remove the carburetor at all? That seems to be in the way too. |
I removed mine without removing my Weber. You do have to bend the tin a bit, but it's not a big deal. There is absolutely no reason to lower/remove the engine and transmission in my opinion.
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1976 Westy
1966 Beetle |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Bala wrote: |
| There is absolutely no reason to lower/remove the engine and transmission in my opinion. |
There absolutely can be a reason to lower the engine transaxle a couple of inches if you do not want to bend up the firewall which rarely fits correctly after you tweak it.
The front tin also will often get in the way, and if you bend that, it will forever be springy and annoying.
The firewall likes to be slipped out from the bottom so you can drop it free of the retaining clips up at the top (they also get all bent to hell when you start prying everything out).
That said, I have done it both ways, depending on my customer's judgment call.
(remove the Weber. Then leave it off and put on the fuel injection  )
Colin
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Bala
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003
Posts: 2637
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| Bala wrote: |
| There is absolutely no reason to lower/remove the engine and transmission in my opinion. |
There absolutely can be a reason to lower the engine transaxle a couple of inches if you do not want to bend up the firewall which rarely fits correctly after you tweak it.
The front tin also will often get in the way, and if you bend that, it will forever be springy and annoying. |
Like I said, I did have to bend the tin a bit, but it bent right back into place. I didn't bend my fire wall at all and it didn't tweak a bit.
Now, if it was a "show bus" or "survivor" I would definitely lower the engine/tranny a bit. My bus, I'm not too concerned with some very slightly creased engine tin. 
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1976 Westy
1966 Beetle |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53244
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I vote for the remove the rear hanger and bellhousing bolts and drop it a few inches, no need to disconnect anything else and that tin never bends back just right after being traumatized by doing it the lazy way.
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5175
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm... well I didn't exactly express my rationale for dropping engine/trans, but it's something like this: Getting into the gas tank area is probably something one does perhaps once every five years or more, unless the bus is being brought out of a deep coma. So, then you are in it for the long haul, and you will likely be doing a whole lot of other work which is far easier with everything pulled out.
Unless, of course, you are in there to dick with a cheesy fuel sending unit... again!  |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: FI Fuel Hoses |
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Thanks to germansupply
Thanks to Mayor Ratwell
Fuel Hoses
Good Luck
Tcash |
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HerNameIsRita
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
Hmmm... well I didn't exactly express my rationale for dropping engine/trans, but it's something like this: Getting into the gas tank area is probably something one does perhaps once every five years or more, unless the bus is being brought out of a deep coma. So, then you are in it for the long haul, and you will likely be doing a whole lot of other work which is far easier with everything pulled out.
Unless, of course, you are in there to dick with a cheesy fuel sending unit... again! |
It's also important to note, I live in Brooklyn and park on the street. Because of street cleaning, my bus can only be out of commission for one week before it has to be moved again. I could pay for monthly parking, but it's $160 for a space in a drive way or $250 for an enclosed garage with a 3 month minimum. Technically a parking ticket would be cheaper. For now, I have to figure out this gas smell before next thursday. |
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