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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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 Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set |
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- - - -
In an attempt to make this HUGE thread useful to others, I have tried to alphabetically index the main points cover so far - here is the index (pages 1 - 74):
ACCELERATOR CABLE INSTALLATION: 55,
AIR FILTER: 18, 56, 59,
ALTERNATOR: 64,
ALTERNATOR removal/installation: 8, 9, 55,
ALTERNATOR TESTING: 68,
BATTERY: 63. 64,
BATTERY TESTING: 52,
BELLHOUSING BOLTS: 25,
CAMSHAFT (and shims) INSTALLATION: 23, 51, 53, 54,
CAMSHAFT REMOVAL: 3,
CAMSHAFT SEAL INSTALLATION: 38, 39,
CAMSHAFT SPROCKET REMOVAL: 8,
CAMSHAFT SPROCKET TRACKING: 53,
CARRIER BARS: 28,
COLD START: 68,
COLD START CABLE/LEVER: 13, 20, 53, 66,
COOLANT OVERFLOW TANK (makeshift): 66, 67, 68,
CRANK-CASE VENTING: 50, 51,
CRANKSHAFT BOLT: 7, 18,
CRANKSHAFT BOLT removal/installation: 19, 22, 50,
CRANKSHAFT PLATE removal/installation: 29, 49,
CRANKSHAFT ROTATION BY HAND: 4,
CRANKSHAFT SEAL: 24,
CRANKSHAFT SPROCKET HOLDERS: 13,
ENGINE COMPRESSION (low): 66,
ENGINE DISMANTELING: 33, 35,
ENGINE LIFTING: 24,
ENGINE lowering/raising: 30, 43, 44, 48, 49,
ENGINE (JX) REBUILDING: 23, 35, 36, 37, 46,
ENGINE START-UP: 57, 60,
EXHAUST PIPE: 41,
EXHAUST TEMP. GAUGE: 30,
FUEL FILTER: 19, 56,
FUEL LEAKS: 62, 64, 65,
FUEL RETURN LINE (transparant): 63, 65, 66,
FRONT SEALS (replacing all 3): 23,
GLOW PLUGS: 64,
GLOW PLUGS RELAY: 67,
GLOW PLUGS (post-glow function): 66,
GLOW PLUGS REMOVAL: 17,
GLOW PLUGS TESTING: 17, 18, 52,
HEAD CRACKS: 24, 32, 34,
INJECTION PUMP ADJUSTING: 61,
INJECTION PUMP BANJO BOLTS: 18,
INJECTION PUMP BRACKET TAPERED NUT: 17, 18,
INJECTION PUMP FUEL PRIMING: 18, 55, 57,
INJECTION PUMP REMOVAL: 10, 13, 14,
INJECTION PUMP SHAFT CHECKING: 11,
INJECTION PUMP SHAFT KEY: 14, 15,
INJECTION PUMP SPROCKET REMOVAL: 10, 11, 12,
INJECTION PUMP TIMING: 2, 6, 14, 23, 55,
INJECTION PUMP VACUUM TUBE: 41, 42, 51,
INJECTORS: 28,
INJECTOR SPRAY PRESSURE: 40, 41.
INJECTOR REMOVAL: 15, 18, 27,
INJECTOR HEAT SHIELDS: 17, 18, 28, 64,
INJECTOR VENT HOSES: 18,
INTERMEDIATE SHAFT BEARINGS: 27, 29, 35, 43,
INTERMEDIATE SHAFT BEARINGS (sizes): 46,
INTERMEDIATE SHAFT BEARING removal/installation: 30, 31, 47, 48,
INTERMEDIATE SHAFT O-RING: 49,
INTERMEDIATE SHAFT SEAL: 13, 16, 24, 49.
INTERMEDIATE SHAFT PULLEY removal/installation: 15, 16, 51,
INTERMEDIATE SHAFT REMOVAL: 28, 29,
LIBBY BONG (coolant bleeding) INSTRUCTIONS: 57,
L.D.A.: 42,
M6 ALLAN BOLTS: 8
METAL INJECTOR LINES: 3, 15,
METAL INJECTOR LINES (priming): 63,
NYLOK NUTS (on IP console): 12, 14, 15, 41, 49,
OIL COOLER (o-ring): 58,
OIL FILTER: 18, 56,
OILPAN ALLAN BOLTS: 26, 28, 37,
OILPAN GASKETS (windage tray): 42, 43,
OILPAN removal/installation: 39, 49, 50,
OIL PRESSURE SENSOR: 58,
OILPUMPS: 39, 40, 45, 46, 49,
OILPUMP INSTALLATION: 49,
OILPUMP CLEARANCES: 39,
OILPUMP PRIMING (externally): 56, 57, 58,
OILPUMP PRESSURE RELEASE VALVE: 40, 41, 45,
OIL SEPARATOR (hockey puck): 56,
PISTON COOLING JETS: 39,
PRECHAMBERS: 24,
SHIFT LINKAGE: 29, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73,
SHIFT LINKAGE PIN: 28, 70, 72,
THRUST BEARINGS: 35,
TIMING BELT: 1, 3, 4
TIMING BELT INSTALLATION: 23,
TIMING BELT TENSIONER: 52, 54,
TIMING BELT TENSIONING: 20, 21,
TIMING BELT TRACKING: 9, 10, 11,
TRANSMISSION: 29, 70,
TRANSMISSION MOUNT: 26,
TRANSMISSION IDENTIFICATION: 28,
TURBO: 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 51,
TURBO OIL RETURN LINE: 25, 29, 42, 43, 46, 50, 59, 74,
TURBO REBUILDING: 34, 51, 52, 55,
TURBO TO BLOCK BRACKET: 29, 65,
V-BELTS: 7, 19, 55, 56,
VACUUM PUMP (o-rings): 57,
VACUUM PUMP (removing and drilling for pressure): 58,
VALVE COVER GASKET: 4, 56,
VALVE COVER LEAKS: 26, 27,
VALVE COVER STUDS: 38, 42,
VALVE LASH: 2, 5, 55,
VALVE OIL-SHIELD PLATE: 57,
VALVE SHIMS REMOVAL: 9
VOLTAGE (testing for): 68,
VOLTAGE REGULATOR: 68,
WATERPUMP: 2, 4, 9, 20,
WATERPUMP OPENING & INSTALLATION: 10, 21, 54, 55,
WATERPUMP REMOVAL: 4, 9,
WATERPUMP THERMOSTAT: 20, 54,
WORK ORDER: 9,
_________________
- Ed
In my efforts to fully understand the procedures and tools required to successfully undertake these critical tasks, I have started several fragmented threads --- I will now attempt to consolidate all of that, and what is to come, on this single dedicated thread. Once I begin the actual work, I will document all of that, here.
But before summarizing what I've gathered so far, I have one question which I feel needs (for me) some clarification:
This involves "setting valve timing".
So let's assume that you have got the engine to TDC, but the CAM LOCK BAR will not fit in. This means that the valves (cam) are out of alignment.
According to the VAG MANUAL, this is how to set the valve timing:
1. check belt tension - - turn engine (crank) until CAM LOCK BAR can fit in perfectly snug.
2. remove belt cover - loosen CAM SPROCKET BOLT half a turn - tap CAM SPROCKET loose (or use sprocket puller if necessary).
3. turn pump sprocket until PUMP LOCK PIN fits... insert PIN.
4. turn engine (crank) until TDC.
5. remove locking pin
6, tension BELT and tighten CAM BOLT 45Nm
7. remove CAM LOCK BAR
8. check pump timing
MY QUESTION IS THIS:
- BETWEEN STEPS 3 AND 4....
...you have cam sprocket LOOSE and FREELY TURNING, but you have the PUMP LOCK PIN IN, so pump sprocket is NOT FREELY TURNING...
So with pump sprocket locked, in STEP 4 you are supposed to turn the engine until you get crank at TDC???? The crank is connected to the belt, and the belt is locked at the pump, so how is the crank supposed to be able to turn?
Am I missing something?
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:10 am Post subject: |
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There is some wiggle to the pump lock, usually several crank degrees. The only purpose to the pump lock is to get the belt installed on the correct tooth of the pump sprocket. The pin needs to fit in at TDC or the belt is on the wrong tooth on the pump sprocket. If there isn't enough wiggle to the pin to allow the crank to turn to TDC with the lock in place, your belt needs to be reset on the pump.
Regardless, I prefer the order of steps I mentioned yesterday as it is a much more accurate way to set the cam timing.
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| With pump lock removed, cam lock in place, and cam bolt finger tight but sprocket still able to turn, rotate the crankshaft a few degrees CCW. Rotate back to TDC CW without going past. Those two rotations move all of the belt slack into the tensioner area between cam and crank. Tension the belt. Torque the cam to 25 ft. lbs. Remove the cam lock. Use the pulley holder to hold the cam sprocket and torque to 45 ft. lbs. (not 33 - it can slip). Give the bolt a tap with a hammer and recheck the 45 ft. lbs. |
The various manuals do not list the step of rotating CCW a few degrees and then CW back to TDC without going past, but I have found that if one does not do that step there is always some slack to the belt between the cam and pump, and between the pump and crank.
One easy way to know if you did that step correctly is to look at the crank TDC mark just before and just after tensioning the belt. If the crank moves when tensioning the belt, you did it wrong and there was slack in the belt in the wrong place.
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:45 am Post subject: |
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All is clear! Thanks Andrew!
On this vid, the guy runs up against exactly that issue (@ 6min.) - and has his own weird way to solve it  ...he also is guilty of tensioning to belt WITH the pump pin IN! ...so no wonder his crank goes off a bit when tensioning to belt, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy5ugRg927U
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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So let's start with a couple of assumptions before even starting this job:
1) the engine is running therefore TDC for crank, cam, and pump are going to be pretty close regardless.
2) but let's assume that they are OFF enough as to still require minor alignment tweeks for all 3.
This means that when we start the procedure (first thing is to remove old belt and install new one)... we take these steps:
1) turn crank to TDC
2) cam SHOULD go to TDC also but let's assume that in order to get the CAM LOCK BAR IN, the crank TDC will be a tad 'off'.
3) now we are supposed to insert the PUMP LOCK PIN, but again, let's assume that the pump sprocket is just a tiny tad OFF and the pin will not just "slide in".
4) So then we loosen the CAM SPROCKET (while keeping the CAM LOCK in place) which allows the cam sprocket (and therefore the BELT and PUMP SPROCKET) to move freely. So now we can tweek the pump sprocket and insert the pump locking pin.
5) now CAM is locked in TDC, but cam sprocket still free, PUMP SPROCKET is locked in place at TDC, and crank is probably close but a tad OFF TDC... for now we won't worry about that (correct??).
6) Next we remove tensioner, and remove pulley and cover, then remove the old toothed belt completely.
INSTALLING and TENSIONING NEW BELT
1) picking up exactly where we left off... we fit on the new BELT and then REMOVE PUMP PIN. (cam is still locked at TDC but cam sprocket is loose and free, crank might be a tad off TDC)
2) install new tensioner
3) NOW ROTATE CRANK A FEW DEGREES CCW > THEN ROTATE CRANK BACK TO TDC BUT NOT PAST > TENSION THE BELT > TORQUE CAM SPROCKET BOLT TO 25ft. > REMOVE CAM LOCK > TORQUE CAM (with holder) to 45ft.
. . . .my question here is - it seems to me that after doing this, we will have CRANK and CAM perfectly on TDC, but very likely the pump pin will not now be fitting in. But perhaps that is NOT SO IMPORTANT because it will be very close, and NOW we are going to do the INJECTION PUMP TIMING which will get the pump into perfect position.... correct?
...but wait a minute > before doing the pump timing the pump pin should be IN, no?
Now I'm confused 
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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It's a decent video. He gets to a good end result, but he does a couple things that I don't feel are technically correct. He torques the cam with the pump lock in place and without the idler roller (Mk3 TDI). Both of those can change the cam timing slightly. The pump lock in place can change the tensioner reading lightly. He has the cam looser than I would have it also. The cam shouldn't be able to spin like that. It shouldn't be locked tight, but if it can spin easily, it is able to move on the taper and the sprocket will not be in the same center as when it is torqued.
I would add the following:
After loosening the cam sprocket, remove it and spray both the cam taper and sprocket mating surfaces with brake cleaner. No oil residue is allowed. If any is present, it greatly increases the odds that the cam sprocket can slip on the cam.
The easiest way to put the belt on is to remove the cam sprocket, place the belt on crank pump and tensioner, tuck the cam sprocket into the loose belt where it goes and then pull it up into place on the cam.
After rotating the engine by hand CW through the two revolutions you should stop back at TDC without going past and insert the camlock again to double-check that your valve timing is correct. If it is off at all, then loosen the cam sprocket and do it again.
Regarding your post:
| Quote: |
| 4) So then we loosen the CAM SPROCKET (while keeping the CAM LOCK in place) which allows the cam sprocket (and therefore the BELT and PUMP SPROCKET) to move freely. So now we can tweek the pump sprocket and insert the pump locking pin. |
You should *never* have the cam lock in place while loosening the cam sprocket bolt or giving the cam it's final torque. There is a fairly significant risk of breaking the end of the cam. When loosening the cam sprocket bolt, you should remove the cam lock and hold the cam sprocket with a pulley holder of some sort. After cam sprocket bolt is loosened and the sprocket is freed from the shaft you can reinsert the cam lock.
| Quote: |
INSTALLING and TENSIONING NEW BELT
1) picking up exactly where we left off... we fit on the new BELT and then REMOVE PUMP PIN. (cam is still locked at TDC but cam sprocket is loose and free, crank might be a tad off TDC)
2) install new tensioner |
See above where I give the 'easy way' to install the belt. Regardless of how you get it on there, the tensioner should be in place along with the belt.
Between tensioning the belt and torquing the cam sprocket bolt you should double-check the crank TDC mark. If the crank has moved during tensioning, you should go a few degrees CCW and back to TDC without going past again before torquing the cam.
The pump pin should be able to fit in the hole with the crank at TDC or at least be less than a tooth's rotation away from fitting.
The pump pin is only used for getting the timing belt on the correct tooth on the pump. The pump pin is used during timing belt installation but is not used at any point during the pump timing adjustment.
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
After rotating the engine by hand CW through the two revolutions you should stop back at TDC without going past and insert the camlock again to double-check that your valve timing is correct. |
If then crank and cam are perfectly at TDC, but pump pin will almost but not quite fit in... is this still OK?
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
The pump pin should be able to fit in the hole with the crank at TDC or at least be less than a tooth's rotation away from fitting.
The pump pin is only used for getting the timing belt on the correct tooth on the pump. The pump pin is used during timing belt installation but is not used at any point during the pump timing adjustment. |
OK, I think you already answered this--- so I can assume that with the CRANK and CAM perfectly at TDC, if the pump pin does NOT fit in, but is very very close to fitting ("less than one tooth away"), then this is still OK.
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Yes.
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Great! Thanks for clarification! ...tricky issue - I have heard some say that the PUMP PIN needs to be really snug and tight - bla bla bla... however this seems not the case... I looked up and will add here what Vince Waldon says on this issue which appears to reflect what Andrew is saying:
""If you can’t get the locking pin installed this probably means the timing belt is not installed correctly.. you’ll need to loosen the timing belt tensioner, the cam shaft sprocket, and then move the belt to a new position on the injection pump so that the hole lines up.. again, with the engine at exactly TDC according to the flywheel.
Some people report that they can't always get the locking pin in during this step even though everything else goes well. That can certainly happen if the pin is a really tight fit and you can try something else with a slightly looser fit. You can also try loosening the belt tension so that the sprocket can move a bit (don't forget to tighten up the belt again if you do this!)
The purpose of the locking pin is to make sure you are at the #1 injection cycle *and* have the timing belt on the right teeth on the injection pump sprocket. It's ok if you use a pin with a little slop, but if the holes are really out of whack I'd stop and figure it out... most likely the belt is off a tooth or two and you'll never be able to set the timing properly.""
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Last edited by epowell on Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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There are slight variations in the machined surfaces of the block. Also, the pump bracket is mounted to the block with intentionally large holes in the bracket that allow movement of the bracket to adjust the timing belt tracking. These variations mean that the hole in the pump bracket can be located in such a manner that it is 'between teeth', in fact it is pretty much always off by at least a little bit. The exact timing timing of the pump is not set with the belt, though, the fine timing is set in the rotation of the body of the pump (or the two parts of the sprocket if you have a late AAZ or ALH). The slots in the pump allow a total of approx. 2 teeth's worth of adjustment so even with the sprocket/bracket holes not exactly lined up you will still be able to properly time the pump if you are on the tooth that gives the best alignment.
The cam, on the other hand, is infinitely adjustable and must be spot on.
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
There are slight variations in the machined surfaces of the block. Also, the pump bracket is mounted to the block with intentionally large holes in the bracket that allow movement of the bracket to adjust the timing belt tracking. These variations mean that the hole in the pump bracket can be located in such a manner that it is 'between teeth', in fact it is pretty much always off by at least a little bit. The exact timing timing of the pump is not set with the belt, though, the fine timing is set in the rotation of the body of the pump (or the two parts of the sprocket if you have a late AAZ or ALH). The slots in the pump allow a total of approx. 2 teeth's worth of adjustment so even with the sprocket/bracket holes not exactly lined up you will still be able to properly time the pump if you are on the tooth that gives the best alignment.
The cam, on the other hand, is infinitely adjustable and must be spot on. |
Yeah, now I am 'getting' that the CAM (and CRANK) is the starting point and there can be ZERO compromise with these two - the PUMP SPROCKET is where the forgiveness is - however, that slight OFFness in the pump will be taken up fully with the pump timing procedure.
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clift_d
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| epowell wrote: |
All is clear! Thanks Andrew!
On this vid, the guy runs up against exactly that issue (@ 6min.) - and has his own weird way to solve it ...he also is guilty of tensioning to belt WITH the pump pin IN! ...so no wonder his crank goes off a bit when tensioning to belt, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy5ugRg927U |
That's a really useful video. Thanks for finding that.
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epowell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:48 am Post subject: |
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I am seeing that the whole job is in fact 3 jobs all put together:
- REPLACING TIMING BELT
- VALVE ALIGNMENT
- INJECTION PUMP TIMING
...and there does not seem to be any tutorial which puts all these 3 together in one single set of instructions. So right here I have tried to simplify the thing - and put together all 3 jobs into one list of simplified instructions.
Does this make sense as I've written below:
Timing Belt Changed - Pump Timing SIMPLIFIED
1. TURN ENGINE TO TDC and LOCK CAM at TDC
2. loosen CAM SPROCKET and TAP LOOSE
3. turn pump sprocket until PUMP LOCK PIN fits
4. tweek engine (crank) to TDC
5. remove tensioner, pulley, and cover
6. remove cam sprocket
7. remove old belt
8. install new tensioner
9. DOUBLE CHECK TDC on crank, cam, pump --then install new belt and cam sprocket together (cam bolt only finger tight)
10. REMOVE PUMP LOCK PIN > NOW ROTATE CRANK A FEW DEGREES CCW > THEN ROTATE CRANK BACK TO TDC BUT NOT PAST > TENSION THE BELT > now double check CRANK is TDC > TORQUE CAM TO 25ft. > REMOVE CAM LOCK > TORQUE CAM (with holder) to 45ft.
11. ROTATE ENGINE 2X AS A CHECK, THEN DOUBLE CHECK BELT TENSION and CAM/CRANK are TDC, and pump sprocket at least within ONE TOOTH of TDC.
12. INSTALL ADAPTOR & DIAL INDICATOR into injection pump
13. TURN ENGINE BACKWARDS UNTIL DIAL STOPS
14. ZERO THE DIAL
15. TURN ENGINE FORWARD UNTIL TDC
16. READ DIAL AND CHECK WITH SPECS... IF NECESSARY TO ADJUST, THEN LOOSEN PUMP AND TAP TWEEK POSITION UNTIL OK. --then tighten to 25Nm
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| epowell wrote: |
1. TURN ENGINE TO TDC and LOCK CAM at TDC
2. loosen CAM SPROCKET and TAP LOOSE
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NO! As I said before, if you lock the cam before loosening the cam bolt you run a very real risk of breaking the end of the cam. DO NOT EVER lock the cam prior to loosening the cam sprocket bolt. You should loosen the cam bolt using the pulley holder and then lock the cam, not the other way around. Next time you suggest locking the cam prior to loosening the bolt I'm going to be even more emphatic - fair warning. 
There is some leeway to some of the order. E.g. you can remove timing covers, water pump pulley, crank pulley first if you want. There is no need to tweak the crank/belt to insert the pump pin - pull the belt with crank at TDC, then insert the pin. The pump lock should be in place when the belt is installed and should be removed before tensioning. The cam lock should not be in place when loosening the cam bolt or torquing to final torque. The following order will require less backtracking:
1. Remove valve cover. Because the crank rotates 2X for every cam/pump rotation, you can't be sure you are at TDC for #1 vs. TDC for #4 without looking at the cam lobes.
2. Rotate crank to TDC for #1 (cam lobes UP).
3. Remove water pump pulley, crank pulley, and timing covers.
4. Loosen tensioner and remove old belt.
5. Using pulley holder to hold the cam sprocket, loosen the cam sprocket bolt.
6. Using a punch from the valve cover side of the cam sprocket, loosen it from the cam.
7. Remove cam sprocket, spray cam taper and sprocket taper with brake cleaner and wipe with clean rag.
8. Double-check crank TDC and adjust if necessary.
9. Install pump lock.
10. Install new tensioner and new belt tight around crank, pump, and tensioner.
11. Place cam sprocket into the loop of belt by the cam and pull it up onto the cam taper and install the bolt finger tight.
12. Remove pump lock.
13. Install cam lock (tweak the cam into position if it is not aligned).
14. Rotate CCW a few degrees, rotate CW back to TDC without going past while keeping pressure at cam sprocket to resist the rotation.
15. Tension the belt.
16. Double-check crank TDC and if it is off then rotate CCW a few degrees and then back CW to TDC without going past.
17. Torque cam sprocket bolt to 25 ft. lbs.
18. Remove cam lock and using the pulley holder torque to 45 ft. lbs.
19. Give the sprocket bolt a tap with the hammer and recheck the 45 ft. lbs.
20. Rotate crank 2x by hand back to TDC without going past.
21. Double-check cam alignment.
22. Install valve cover, timing covers, pulleys, etc...
23+ Adjust pump timing...
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epowell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
NO! As I said before, if you lock the cam before loosening the cam bolt you run a very real risk of breaking the end of the cam. DO NOT EVER lock the cam prior to loosening the cam sprocket bolt. You should loosen the cam bolt using the pulley holder and then lock the cam, not the other way around. Next time you suggest locking the cam prior to loosening the bolt I'm going to be even more emphatic - fair warning.
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Yes yes, the point you had made about NOT TOUCHING THE CAM BOLT WHILE CAM LOCK is in place was very well understood and taken - you can be sure!
What I have meant was put crank in TDC, and then lock the cam (to be sure it is in TDC), THEN REMOVE CAM LOCK AND LOOSEN THE CAM SPROCKET ---
But I agree that this is SUCH an important point that even for the sake of simplicity, this detail ought never be left out of the instruction (even simplified instructions)
Thanks so much for pointing this out again!
PS - but now that I THINK of it - there would be no point at all in putting in the CAM LOCK and then removing it again (before loosening the cam sprocket) because after loosening the cam sprocket the cam will be locked at TDC ANYWAY!
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epowell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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aha... I think I am slowly getting it now...
So when the PO re-installed this engine, all he did was align the crank, and cam, and then put on the belt with the pin lock in... right? Meaning that if you have the crank, cam, and pump pin at TDC (without doing the pump timing), the vehicle will still run ok, correct?
Seems that this is what he did, and that is why he told me I should do the pump timing.
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epowell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
14. Rotate CCW a few degrees, rotate CW back to TDC without going past while keeping pressure at cam sprocket to resist the rotation.
15. Tension the belt. |
I am not sure I really understand what you mean by "keeping pressure at cam sprocket to resist the rotation." ...we don't want rotation of the camshaft but that is now locked anyway. Are you saying that at this point we should ALLOW the cam sprocket to rotate as we turn the engine, but still we should keep some resistance on the cam sprocket anyway so it won't get TOO loose on the cam taper which might affect valve timing later? ...or?
Otherwise I understand this list completely - and so much is now very clear to me....! BIG BIG BIG THANKS ANDREW!!! 
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epowell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I found a couple of mistakes in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqx2WVMj14Q
at 4:30 he tensions the belt with the pump pin still in.
at 5:22 he torques the cam bolt to 45Nm WITHOUT PULLEY HOLDER AND WITH THE CAM LOCK STILL IN 
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| epowell wrote: |
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
14. Rotate CCW a few degrees, rotate CW back to TDC without going past while keeping pressure at cam sprocket to resist the rotation.
15. Tension the belt. |
I am not sure I really understand what you mean by "keeping pressure at cam sprocket to resist the rotation." ...we don't want rotation of the camshaft but that is now locked anyway. Are you saying that at this point we should ALLOW the cam sprocket to rotate as we turn the engine, but still we should keep some resistance on the cam sprocket anyway so it won't get TOO loose on the cam taper which might affect valve timing later? ...or?
Otherwise I understand this list completely - and so much is now very clear to me....! BIG BIG BIG THANKS ANDREW!!! |
The whole purpose to the CCW and CW rotation is to make the belt taut between the crank, pump, and cam, and to move all of the slack into the tensioner area. With the cam sprocket able to turn on the cam, it can help move the slack to put a little pressure by hand on the cam sprocket against that rotation back to TDC. For the same reason, I do not think the cam sprocket bolt should be so loose that the cam sprocket can spin easily on the cam.
I noticed both of the issues you mentioned with the video. With the tension gauge built into the tensioner, it's fairly easy to see afterward if it is tensioned correctly and so he's off the hook on the pump lock. Regarding torquing to full torque with the cam lock in place, it will not always break the cam but it is not unusual for it to happen and I see no reason to risk it.
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epowell
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
The whole purpose to the CCW and CW rotation is to make the belt taut between the crank, pump, and cam, and to move all of the slack into the tensioner area. With the cam sprocket able to turn on the cam, it can help move the slack to put a little pressure by hand on the cam sprocket against that rotation back to TDC. For the same reason, I do not think the cam sprocket bolt should be so loose that the cam sprocket can spin easily on the cam.
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This really makes sense... I really love these fine subtle details! As an instrument maker - I well know that the real art is in those fine delicate points! Mechanics is also a magnificent Art form when approached this way - I REALLY appreciate you sharing all of this knowledge and subtle expertise!!
At this point I feel pretty solid now in my theoretical grasp of the procedure - - - next step is to get practical and start sourcing the parts I will need, and the tools also --- even the basic common tools I need to acquire.
And then there is the coolant situation I need to deal with ASAP when I return...
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