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Merian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

what "one person bleed method" Question
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

pushkick wrote:
thanks for the advice

i have checked and double checked for air in lines. i did the one person bleed method several times on each wheel but i will try the two person bleed method with someone holding the brake pedal down. the one thing that i noticed is that after i adjusted the rear brakes some last time. when i pulled the emergency brake up a couple of notches the brakes seem to work normal but a very little on the spongy side. not a completely hard feel on the pedal. i will try to adjust with drum on if i can. kind of hard laying on ground.


Driving it up on just one or two thicknesses of 2x6's will give you room to work and doesn't make you reach as high as having it up on ramps will.
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scottz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

Merian wrote:
what "one person bleed method" Question


I think he means "gravity bleed". Let it drip at the wheel cylinder or caliper and keep the master cylinder reservoir full. It works quite well.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

^^^^

Works every time.

The rear brakes have to be adjusted, & the parking brake off.

Installing a new master cylinder?

Bench bleed it first, then install it, then bleed the brakes.

Works every time.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

one person method just put a clear hose on bleeder and run hose into a sealed plastic bottle and place bottle higher than the brake bleeder. pump brake pedal and open bleeder an the brake fluid will flow up hose into bottle and air will flow up brake fluid in hose when you pump brake. what about brake drum specs? is the bently worn spec precise or is their some tolerance. how much tolerance difference between right and left drum is ok? or should there be any difference?

i drove the van about 3 miles and kept applying the brakes then i notched the ebrake a couple of clicks and the brakes worked ok but not firm. so i left the ebrake on and started back. bad move! brake drum got hot and started smoking (just the drivers side) hope the grease is still in wheel bearing. will have to pull and look tomorrow.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
A spongy pedal is often some air in the lines.

A long pedal travel can be from rear shoes too far from the drum.


good info i will try to bleed again. i guess i will have to try and adjust them better . the ebrake scenario kind of tells me i need to make the adjustment better. thanks really difficult while laying on ground under van with that little hole on the back plate. have to do by feel cant see the adjuster. how much travel does the wheel cylinder provide?
i noticed that the old brakes pads where worn to different thicknesses and the drums are about a 1 -1.5 mm difference in inside diameter. is this normal?
while bleeding i noticed my front caliper rubber lines are worn and cracked so i guess i will have to replace them along with the back lines.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

For the initial adjustment after changing out your brake shoes you want the parking brake cable adjustment backed off several turns. Don't adjust it back up until the brakes are properly adjusted.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
For the initial adjustment after changing out your brake shoes you want the parking brake cable adjustment backed off several turns. Don't adjust it back up until the brakes are properly adjusted.


thanks for info , i will have to cut ebrake rod, nut wont move very much (rust rust rust)
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

Kind of drastic move cutting the cable.

Heat the nut up with your torch, clamp onto it with a vice grips & back it off.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

And you can clean up the threads with a wire wheel or brush if that would help.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

well i finally got the back brakes working close to like they should. had to adjust the brakes while the drums were on. what i found is that one adjuster was hanging up on the spring that pulls the brake shoe away from the drum.
tight fit in that area. the place where the spring hooks onto the backplate was bent up a little and that caused the problem with the adjuster rubbing the spring. once i adjusted the the shoes with the drums on everything started working as it should. still have to fix the ebrake.
i forgot about trying heat (thanks terry for suggestion) i used pb blaster, liquid wrench etc. i will try my wire brush wheel on my drill to try and clean up the threads and then chase the fhreads as far as i can to the nut. my ebake is a cable ( maybe a 1'- 1.5' long) at the handle and that cable is crimped on a steel rod which goes to the equalizer.

thanks everyone for your input and taking the time to help and advise.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

well i tried some more pb blaster and pipe wrench and ratchet wrench to adjust the ebrake and what do you know i thought the nut was turning and it was really the rod breaking. i decided to remove ebrake cable/rod and rethread and use a ss nut coupler and thread ss rod to extend the ebrake rod to its original length. i am going to weld the ss nut coupler on both ends to make sure it dosent come loose. cleaned the rusty equalizer and primed and painted. hopefully next time no rust
still having trouble with brake adjusting. cant seem to get a short pedal stroke. these drum brakes are tough to adjust.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

ended up getting new drums and fixed the ebrake rod with 316ss nut coupler and threaded rod. still cant get the brakes adjusted. the first push of pedal goes almost to floor and when i pump the brake pedal the stroke gets shorter each time, at about the 3rd or 4th stroke it seems to be firm and a short stroke. i decided to get new brake hoses since the existing ones are cracked and have rub wear spots, i decided to go with ss hoses, will change out the hoses tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. the only thing left is the master cylinder and i dont really want to tackle that if i dont need to change it.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

Make sure you have the adjuster installed correctly and that all the springs are on in the right direction. There are a lot of ways one can put these brakes together wrong, not even all the pictures in the Bentley show every thing installed properly IIRC.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

do you have a pic of a correctly installed brake pads and springs? the springs seem to interfere with the movement of the adjusters a little.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

Those main return spring should look like this. There are 2 different springs on each side of the van. If you mix up the springs the long hook end blocks the adjuster.

DRIVER SIDE PHOTO
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




PASSENGER SIDE PHOTO
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Mark
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

great pics thanks! i think i might have hooked mine up wrong i think i will have to check that again. plus after reading many other pages of post i think my adjusters are bad the pawls seem to be worn to almost non existence compared to new ones. i found some pics of the pawls on another thread. so it looks like i will have to order some new adjusters. i should have researched this more and i didnt think i would have to replace all this stuff. i thought it would be only shoes. i should have gone with the 14" disc brake/rotors and calipers that the guy advertises in the classifieds here on thesamba (for $125 for everything brackets, calipers, etc). next time for sure ( if there is a next time). snowing here today will have to wait to continue this since i am working outside in a gravel driveway, tomorrow suppose to be in the high 50's. more time to read other post.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

Also make absolutely sure you didn't swap the adjusters side to side.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

I'm afraid you misread the ad. The only parts you get for $125 are some mounting brackets. You also get a list of what calipers and discs to obtain elsewhere.

Mark


pushkick wrote:
.... i should have gone with the 14" disc brake/rotors and calipers that the guy advertises in the classifieds here on thesamba (for $125 for everything brackets, calipers, etc). next time for sure .....
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Merian
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: ss brake hoses Reply with quote

Mark, your post above with the pic is an xlnt one, but should be in it's own "drum brake" thread in the FAQ.

And why are you up at 5 am??
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