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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2015 Posts: 704 Location: Berkeley Ca
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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He he thanks, I'll read up. I think all I am stating is than rather than put the switch on the hot how someone asked it would be beter to put on ground.
dhaavers wrote: |
^^^ Sorry to say, but your responses here indicate that you are still working on
understanding basic electrical theory. Please stop before someone gets hurt...
Check it: http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/elec11.pdf
- Dave |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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If you install your switch in the main current path to the pump you will need a switch and wire rated to handle 8 amps or more, whereas if you install your switch in the trigger circuit for the fuel pump relay you will be dealing with a much smaller current so can use a smaller gauge wire and a lighter rated switch.
Another way to go would be to add a relay in the ground path for the fuel pump. This would allow for a small gauge wire running forward and a switch with a low current rating. It would also be very easy to bypass should the system fail, as all you would need to do is hook the original ground wire back up. If you left the original ground wire in place, but disconnected from the pump, it would only take seconds to be running again. |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16450 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Another way to go would be to add a relay in the ground path for the fuel pump. This would allow for a small gauge wire running forward and a switch with a low current rating. It would also be very easy to bypass should the system fail, as all you would need to do is hook the original ground wire back up. If you left the original ground wire in place, but disconnected from the pump, it would only take seconds to be running again. |
This is exactly what I did on my previous bus. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2288 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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dobryan wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
Another way to go would be to add a relay in the ground path for the fuel pump. This would allow for a small gauge wire running forward and a switch with a low current rating. It would also be very easy to bypass should the system fail, as all you would need to do is hook the original ground wire back up. If you left the original ground wire in place, but disconnected from the pump, it would only take seconds to be running again. |
This is exactly what I did on my previous bus. |
Late to the party (been off-grid for a week at Jalama beach. ) - and this is also exactly what I did.
A relay interrupting the ground feed for the pump, installed right beside the pump so an easy swap of wires should the relay or its control fail. A small guage wire (again in the ground side) to a tiny slide switch installed in a very inconspicuous place - no, no pics, it's my secret....
OK, it could be foiled by a thief with some electrical savvy, but as it stands it works very well as a kill-switch, but very easily bypassed when in the know. The fact it catches out both myself and Mrs fxr about 30% of the time shows it isn't an obvious thing to engage. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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Jamo7 Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2014 Posts: 124 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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Ok, I'll play...
I have this switch interrupting the ground wire directly from the fuel pump.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/installation-supplies/mini-onoff-toggle-switch/1353/3111/
It is rated to 10 Amps. I have been using this switch in this configuration for sometime between 1.5 and 2 years.
I have learned some valid points about interrupting the pump relay instead of the pump itself. If the need arises, I will likely rewire my kill switch. However, I just put my dash back together last week, and while I know i get better at it every time, I'm not inclined to rewire my switch now.
James _________________ '84 Westy 2.1 wbx |
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davevickery Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2887 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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I just posted this is another thread but this is a better place for it.
I like this idea for a hidden switch. With a remote, you have better options where to hide it. Less than $20.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Logisys-RM02-Wireless-12V...35cb22971e |
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drj434343 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2016 Posts: 397 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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I have two Vanagons with switched ground interrupts for the fuel pump.
1. 1983 Westfalia, 16 AWG wire run all the way from ground at the pump to the rear heater fan control switch on the dash all the way back to the chassis ground next to the pump. ~25 ft additional wire in the ground path. Only 1 of the 4 possible switch positions will allow the pump to run. Rear heater was deleted, so this switch was available. Can be bypassed at the pump or at the switch in case of failure. Running 1 year without issues.
2. 1990 tintop, 16 AWG wire run same as above but to a hidden switch. Running 6 months without issue. |
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Paulbeard Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015 Posts: 2604 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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drj434343 wrote: |
1. 1983 Westfalia, 16 AWG wire run all the way from ground at the pump to the rear heater fan control switch on the dash all the way back to the chassis ground next to the pump. ~25 ft additional wire in the ground path. |
Why not to a local ground under the dash? _________________ Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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pomfritz Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2014 Posts: 477 Location: Folsom, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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Great ideas, thanks for the input. Being a visual learner, can some kind soul post a simple drawing of how a relay next to the pump and run to a switch in the cab would be wired? I’m sure it’s simple but a picture for us non-EE folks....
I would probably use the generic relay GW sells, think I have one on hand.
Thanks _________________ 83.5 233K. GW 2.3, SS exhaust, My German Frau named her Stefi |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3771 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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pomfritz wrote: |
Great ideas, thanks for the input. Being a visual learner, can some kind soul post a simple drawing of how a relay next to the pump and run to a switch in the cab would be wired? I’m sure it’s simple but a picture for us non-EE folks....
I would probably use the generic relay GW sells, think I have one on hand.
Thanks |
I am wanting to do this soon also, so i sketched up my interpretation
_________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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pomfritz Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2014 Posts: 477 Location: Folsom, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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Thanks Brandon,
On the relay you use the 87 to 30 contacts? _________________ 83.5 233K. GW 2.3, SS exhaust, My German Frau named her Stefi |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 16972 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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To wire it proper, the fuel pump would ground through 30 and 87. You could also run power through 30 and 87. It just depends how you want to wire it. If you look at the relay you can see the electromagnet with pins 85 and 86. You would add power to one leg and ground to the other. You would then toggle either 85 or 86. When the relay electromagnet is energized, 30 and 87 are connected.
All of this explained, if you go back and read my posts and compare against the wiring diagram. You don't need to add a relay, you can simply add a toggle to the power relay ground to interrupt the engine running. _________________ ☮️ |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4697 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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i wonder if it would be more mysterious if the ECU relay was disabled. Vanagon theives, used to Vanagons, may listen for the fuel pump sound with key on just as a natural part of starting one. i do.
either way, i think it is a great feature to add... "Hey, this van doesn't start. Stupid Volkswagens."
-dan |
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drj434343 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2016 Posts: 397 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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Paulbeard wrote: |
drj434343 wrote: |
1. 1983 Westfalia, 16 AWG wire run all the way from ground at the pump to the rear heater fan control switch on the dash all the way back to the chassis ground next to the pump. ~25 ft additional wire in the ground path. |
Why not to a local ground under the dash? |
I had a length of sheathed 2 wire cable so I really only ran 1 cable. Part of the reason was an experiment; would the added path to ground resistance of that loop affect the pump? The answer after 1 year is that I haven't noticed a difference. |
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candyman Samba Trout Slayer
Joined: December 20, 2003 Posts: 2694 Location: Missoula MT
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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Can someone post a link of switches that would work? All I can find in toggle switches etc... are rated inAC not DC.
Thanks |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2288 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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pomfritz wrote: |
Great ideas, thanks for the input. Being a visual learner, can some kind soul post a simple drawing of how a relay next to the pump and run to a switch in the cab would be wired? I’m sure it’s simple but a picture for us non-EE folks....
I would probably use the generic relay GW sells, think I have one on hand.
Thanks |
Below is the circuit of what I did. It just needs one wire running from the relay to the switch - wherever you might put that. Here's a link to the switch I used, almost invisible when installed on a black background:
https://www.frys.com/product/1945881
_________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9770 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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candyman wrote: |
Can someone post a link of switches that would work?... |
Almost any ordinary toggle will work fine, rating on most will be much higher than needed (irrespective of whether it says AC or DC).
Or you could use a blank spot in the dash pod for one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Volkswagen-Vanagon-Rea...mp;vxp=mtr |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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That is how I would prefer to do it. To be clear, the +12 wire is just the existing power wire to the pump?
Mark |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2288 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
That is how I would prefer to do it. To be clear, the +12 wire is just the existing power wire to the pump?
Mark |
Yes. I cut off the original spade connector to the pump and fitted a new one incorporating an extra wire to go to the relay coil. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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Jamo7 Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2014 Posts: 124 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cutoff switch |
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That’s a really helpful diagram Jim. I am used to using relays switched from the power side, not the ground side.
Thank you Mark and Jim especially for taking the time to clarify all of this.
James _________________ '84 Westy 2.1 wbx |
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