Grapes of Wrath $200 engine rebuild

[pyrOman]

[buggin_out]

Hey there all,

I'm in Australia and want to build my own 2275 engine. But I just can't afford the 5K CB wants for the engine kit + shipping is a real kick in the guts to Australia. What would you guys recommend for me building an engine that might stay together for 100 thousand miles, thereabouts?

I was thinking one of the clearanced AS41 cases from CB as they've now got them back in stock. A set of their super pro heads. And buying the pistons and cylinders from AA with a scat 82mm crank. Am I ok with hypereutectic pistons, or should I go for the forged? Also, should I get helical gears for the cam, or am I better off with straight cut (I really don't mind the noise, I'm hard pressed to notice it other the exhaust anyway with the engines I have ehard running that had them)

I also am pretty convinced I should stay with a 26mm oil pump for the street, as many have said the 30mm pumps too much for daily use and can ruin your bearings as the oil doesnt have a chance to stay there and do what it does best?

I just would like a recommendation on whatever other parts I should get to put the combo together? I am going to get the oil filler / breather from CB that has the connections for the carb air filters and the valve covers (will be running the CB aluminium valve covers over their heads) Want to use 48 IDFs as she might just be my daily driver. Can IDA's really be made streetable with the 3rd progression hole mod? one thing I DON"T really wish to do is stop all the time to pull the carbs apart to blow clogged jets out..

I want to use a Web Cams 86B and will be getting an A-1 1 3/4 system with a fat boy tuck-away muffler - both in stainless steel.
Also, I wish to use the Mofoco oil filter and cooler adaptor for the oil pump aswell as their oil cooler with fan kit. (Being in Australia and having almost 2 months during summer where we have 40 Degrees plus (Centigrade) weather, cooling really can't be compromised on)
I will also buy a transmission through Rancho. What ratios to people recommend I use? I was thinking a 4.12 ring and pinion, and maybe a close ratio 3rd. Someone said before that If I use a Webcams 86C, then I will need a close ratio box. What ratios and final drive would people recommend then?

Thanks in advance for any help guys, everything is much appreciated. I know from what has been said in this thread that there are people here who know what they are talking about. Hey - if there are any parts like heads or cases people think I should change - please let me know about it, if it can make my build better / last longer I'm all ears!

Kind Regards,

Tom Serna

[AlteWagen]

Not sure this is the best thread to get the right answer to your question unless you are trying to save cash buying used swap meet parts.

To be honest the parts you are talking about wouldnt be much cheaper than $5K piecing it together and would seriously doubt more than 50K with a major rebuild.

Ive read a few posts where owners claim over 100K with large displacement engines and their parts list are VERY conservative. NO high compression, NO big heads with dual springs, mild cams with smaller headers and carbs that equates to NO high revs which I think is the reason they last so long. These builds are also in light weight bugs not heavy vehicles.

My experience has been that Type I engines need to have heads serviced between 50-70K miles for valve job and spring replacement at a minimum. If your oil pressure is within limits you may get away with a top end rebuild (service heads, re ring and hone or replace if needed and new rod bearings) at that time and get another 70K out of it.

I have put another 80K+ on the engine I "rebuilt" in the beginning of this thread and its time to go through it again. It still runs great but mileage and power is definitely down from what it used to be. It also burns a bit more oil than I like so I know its time. Since this engine is in my bus that gets loaded down and driven hard the exhaust valves are always on my mind.

I think a general rule of thumb for getting the most out of any build is getting it dynamically balanced, clean oil (real oil filter with quality oil), keeping the incoming air clean (quality air filters serviced or changed regularly) and most of all quality parts matched to the application with excellent building techniques. You cant forget good monitoring (CHT, OT, OP) after the engine is built making sure NOT to overheat which takes a lot of life out of an engine if it survives at all.

In the end the driver is what will ultimately decide on the fate of the engine regardless of the quality of build. Ive seen people blow up $20K builds because they plain out dont know how to drive or listen to the engine.

If you build an engine that will rev to 8K I wont believe anyone that says they wont rev it to the redline. High rpms = less engine life.

If you really want something that will last 100K you may want to consider something like a mild Type 4 build and be prepared to spend around $10K+ for a turn key. Speed and longevity wont be cheap regardless of what platform you decide on.
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Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[buggin_out]

Ok, fine 50k is alot when you look at it considering the vehicle wouldn't be my main ride all the time. I wouldn't be game to run more than 9.5:1 compression as I want to use 95RON fuel exclusively (We have 91 , 95 and 98 ron fuel, which is somehow each transversely equivalent to your ratings ie : our 91 equals your 87, 95 = 89 and 98 = 91, we use the same rating system as the europeans I believe)

The case , heads and carbs are the biggest expenses I can see in building the engine (although I am thinking about going megasquirt EFI ,which will be cheaper if I build the kit myself and use ebay IDF throttle bodies)

I'm just wondering more along the lines of what parts in the middle of making that all happen I can save on building an engine.

Cheers,

Tom S.

[TinCanFab]

[TheViking]

part 2?

[nsracing]

Definitely a very nice write-up. One of the best I have seen here. I like it to be a sticky too.

In a re-ring job, you have to check end-gaps to make sure you are within specs or you will cook the rings.

Otherwise, it is an awesome work. Very clean for doing this all by hand. I spoiled myself early to a hot jetwasher as it was too frustrating to do engines after engines all by handwashing everything.

The crank you got is a cast steel. I took one in on a trade and it has lasted in a bus also. I suppose if you are gentle on it will serve you well.

Nice work!

[AlteWagen]

Thanks

Slowly working on part two, found a set of gex heads in the pile so I'll clean them up and document the inspection, valve guide replacement, lap, keeper figment, assembly, and chamber cc.

That $99 Century cast crank has been great! It did its first 10K miles in my bug with hundreds of drag starts and the last 140K in the bus. I was sure the off road wheel hop was going to break it in half countless times but that sucker just keeps on going. It needs to come out soon, it feels pretty weak and mileage is down. I think the use of new vw heads and case was the key to reliability. Even with 9:1+ compression it provided excellent performance and longevity for 70K hard miles. In a bug I'm sure you could pull even more miles out of it between refresh.
_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[Lingwendil]

I'm for sure looking forward to part 2, I've got a pair of single and dual port heads I need to refresh myself.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[AlteWagen]

Getting closer to part II.

Got some NOS exhaust valves and valve springs as well as a stepped guide drill and driver.

That GEX head has got me kinda scared but I guess we will see what it looks like after it gets cleaned up.

The good ol 1699 is still going but the 168K miles have taken their toll. Only getting 21mpg these days, compression still reasonable and within limits but a slight knock in the morning can be heard that goes away when warmed up. Im thinking worn wrist pin bushings based on symptoms. If the GEX heads dont work out maybe its best to put the NOS parts on the 043 heads.

STAY TUNED!!!!
_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[Lingwendil]

_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[VW_Jimbo]

Would love to see and read the conclusion to this hread. Any news on its posting?
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[RWK]

great post, doing something similar, got a virgin 1600 dp hasn't run since 90s around 30k on it pulled heads off to check it out, got to get rings, 1 and 2 cylinder both have stuck and broke top ring, cylinders all within wear limit as expected about .003 difference.
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[AlteWagen]

even with the kid in school a few days a week its very difficult to find time to work on the fleet. Also been finishing up my prototype muffler/header which took a ton of time.

Dont worry Ill try to wrap up the top end asap as I am finishing up the 1800 and will document the fit up.

_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[&Dan]

I think I speak for all of us when I say, "Come on with it, then!".

[cbeck]

Everybody always wants cheap, and fast.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[&Dan]

[56Cabrio]

[AlteWagen]

I appreciate all the interest! Unfortunately Im in the middle of ANOTHER move and all the builds, parts and tools are boxed up. Unless a miracle happens I wont be able to document any fun stuff for quite a while.

Ill try to do what I can in the minutes I steal in the middle of the night.

BTW that GEX core head was far too wasted to 'rebuild' without real seat/valve cutters. I have a good 40hp candidate that may work as an example but again when time allows.

Thanks again everyone, and keep on wrenching!!!! If anyone wants to add any of their tips and tricks please feel free to do so, its what makes this community so great!
_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[AlteWagen]