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Motorbike Don
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2018
Posts: 88
Location: MD
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 Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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Howdy all,
I have a 1600 DP with 1.5 inch headers.
Just got in my 34, it came with factory jetting installed, but also with set richer jets.
So........ My newbie question is, aside from the Empi instructions, do I need to do anything else for the initial set up?
Also, with the headers, will the factory jetting work, or should I go with the enriched set?
Thanks,
Motorbike Don |
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Coyotemutt
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2017
Posts: 360
Location: Pecos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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Headers are too large, but whatevs.
The factory tune is likely to be driveable and smooth but you'll be able to tune your way to better MPG for sure.
I bet someone on here (possibly even me) could get your tune near perfect if you post what distributor you use and your typical driving elevation. And, very importantly, if you have good intake pre-heat.
034 distributor, 5000+ft? Hot intake manifold? Probably a 47-50 idle and a 125ish main. |
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Motorbike Don
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2018
Posts: 88
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| Coyotemutt wrote: |
Headers are too large, but whatevs.
The factory tune is likely to be driveable and smooth but you'll be able to tune your way to better MPG for sure.
I bet someone on here (possibly even me) could get your tune near perfect if you post what distributor you use and your typical driving elevation. And, very importantly, if you have good intake pre-heat.
034 distributor, 5000+ft? Hot intake manifold? Probably a 47-50 idle and a 125ish main. |
typ
Mutt,
The headers came with the engine. I have ordered a breakerless 009 type distributor, mechanical advance.
Elevation is about 500 feet.
I am working on the getting the engine running, so the pre-heat will be a priority. |
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FeelthySanchez
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011
Posts: 1349
Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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Yes, suggest a complete disassembly of the new chy-knees Empi carb: these mediocre-quality knockoffs are notorious for having manufacturing residue (chips, dirt, crud, etc) left inside them.
Doing this before installation could save ya many tuning/operational headaches down the road.
After disassembly, blast/clean-out every tiny orifice w/ aerosol carb spray cleaner (the type w/ a small plastic tube @ 90* to the can), then soak it overnight in caustic carb cleaner (the liquid type sold in a large steel can).
Next morning, remove & rinse-off w/ hot water. Blast all orifices again w/ the aerosol cleaner. G'luck!
Be advised that regardless of jetting, those huge headers should demolish the lil' 1600's bottom end torque.
| Motorbike Don wrote: |
| I have a 1600 DP with 1.5 inch headers. Just got in my 34, it came with factory jetting installed, but also with set richer jets. So........ My newbie question is, aside from the Empi instructions, do I need to do anything else for the initial set up? Also, with the headers, will the factory jetting work, or should I go with the enriched set? Thanks, Motorbike Don |
_________________
| modok wrote: |
| I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
| Ryan Tucker wrote: |
| Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
| OldIronSpine wrote: |
What is a boost retard?
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Where do you put the inter cooler for it at? And does it use its own coolent?
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80411
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| FeelthySanchez wrote: |
Yes, suggest a complete disassembly of the new chy-knees Empi carb: these mediocre-quality knockoffs are notorious for having manufacturing residue (chips, dirt, crud, etc) left inside them.
Doing this before installation could save ya many tuning/operational headaches down the road. |
^^^^^
This
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Q-Dog
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8874
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13585
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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Don, all of your posts read like a "step by step newbie guide to guarantee frustration"
Please don't take that the wrong way, new parts do not equal good parts. get good original parts and go through and rebuild and clean them. you will save yourself money and frustration.
Every
Mistake
Passes
Inspection
when I was 16 a very long time ago, the corner VW mechanic took me aside "look kid you have a perfectly good engine, quit buying these half ass parts. you can half ass this, and half ass that, and it might get up and go and run pretty good, but you got no ass left to sit on"
I was also very lucky that, if I paid, I could watch, help, ask questions, etc. Can't get that kind of education anymore, thats for sure. He preferred I get my hands dirty adjusting my valves on my filthy leaky engine, while he worked on expensive watercooled cars...
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Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Motorbike Don
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2018
Posts: 88
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| Erik G wrote: |
Don, all of your posts read like a "step by step newbie guide to guarantee frustration"
Please don't take that the wrong way, new parts do not equal good parts. get good original parts and go through and rebuild and clean them. you will save yourself money and frustration.
Every
Mistake
Passes
Inspection
when I was 16 a very long time ago, the corner VW mechanic took me aside "look kid you have a perfectly good engine, quit buying these half ass parts. you can half ass this, and half ass that, and it might get up and go and run pretty good, but you got no ass left to sit on"
I was also very lucky that, if I paid, I could watch, help, ask questions, etc. Can't get that kind of education anymore, thats for sure. He preferred I get my hands dirty adjusting my valves on my filthy leaky engine, while he worked on expensive watercooled cars... |
Erik while I do appreciate the honesty I think you have backwards. I am trying to avoid mistake and frustration. Which is why I am asking questions.
I was warned about even new parts needing work. Which is why I posted this thread.
Now I know disabling the new carb is a wise thing to do. Which I will.
Just throwing it on would have been unwise. Same as if I did not ask this and other questions.
Even more foolish would be to seek advice from you guys and not us it.
From my end you and I are good. I appreciate your input. |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4277
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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"I was warned about even new parts needing work" I don't think you're quite getting it yet: NEW PARTS NEED MORE WORK THAN 40 YR-OLD GOOD GERMAN STUFF. 
And when you say "factory jetting", my first thought is "what factory's jetting for what?". There are probably 10 different "factory" settings for the 34 Pict. Hell, I'm driving a Golf with "factory" jetted 34 PICT, and settings for types 2 and 2 are different, etc..
It's a learning curve, we've all been where you are, and that's why we're trying to help you avoid making the same mistakes we did...some of us have been stubborn, thirsty horses.
Whatever you do, DON?T THROW AWAY any of the "old" stuff you're taking off, you might finding yourself regretting it sooner or later (thinking carb, distrib, points, condenser, fuel pump, etc.).
The 1.5" headers are loosing you power in the most useful driving range, idle-3000 rpm, and if they don't give good heating to the manifold (and most don't have a good flow for heating because of their crap design), the single carb will be generally unhappy.
Do you have a set budget? We could come up with a combo if we knew where you want to get and how much you're willing to spend. Spend it where it counts!
Hope this helps. |
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Motorbike Don
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2018
Posts: 88
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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Free
Thanks and I know everyone is helping me.
I will.have to look at the spec sheet with the carb and get back to you.
If the only mistake I have made is buying carb for $129 I CAN live.with that.
If someone can offer a better carb for around the same I investment let me know. I can send it back!
The headers came with the engine. Same as.the carb and distributor.
In a previous thread someone suggested an engine 1800 that would be in my budget of $1500.
I just need a buggy engine with good low end and drivabilty for fire trails.
I
Thanks again
Donnie |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4277
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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OK, cool, do you know what you have,are your heads / engine block / bottom end good?
You could make a good, low-revving, long-living 1835 or even maybe 1914 and recycle a lot of your stock stuff.
Back to your original question: as soon as you deviate even slightly from stock, you will need to re-jet, or at least check if you need to. If you plan on making a whole new engine, and tune it, get a wideband O2 sensor, and start playing with it.
Then there are specific procedures to set idle rpm and emissions.. One big mistake people make is to adjust the throttle position to vary rpm. On the 34 pict, it's all done with the bypass valve, the very large brass screw on the side. Fuel is the little one, just above.
If you do things right, 1500$ can take you quite a ways. |
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4555
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| As easy as an aircooled VW carburator is to install and remove. I would slap it on and see what you got. You might get lucky. |
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Motorbike Don
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2018
Posts: 88
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
| As easy as an aircooled VW carburator is to install and remove. I would slap it on and see what you got. You might get lucky. |
Airhead
Well considering the engine is on my garage floor waiting for a test stand what would I be out? 20 minutes to mount and dismount? |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80411
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
| As easy as an aircooled VW carburator is to install and remove. I would slap it on and see what you got. You might get lucky. |
Hoping to get lucky is not what a real mechanic does.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Motorbike Don
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2018
Posts: 88
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| FreeBug wrote: |
"I was warned about even new parts needing work" I don't think you're quite getting it yet: NEW PARTS NEED MORE WORK THAN 40 YR-OLD GOOD GERMAN STUFF.
And when you say "factory jetting", my first thought is "what factory's jetting for what?". There are probably 10 different "factory" settings for the 34 Pict. Hell, I'm driving a Golf with "factory" jetted 34 PICT, and settings for types 2 and 2 are different, etc..
It's a learning curve, we've all been where you are, and that's why we're trying to help you avoid making the same mistakes we did...some of us have been stubborn, thirsty horses.
Whatever you do, DON?T THROW AWAY any of the "old" stuff you're taking off, you might finding yourself regretting it sooner or later (thinking carb, distrib, points, condenser, fuel pump, etc.).
The 1.5" headers are loosing you power in the most useful driving range, idle-3000 rpm, and if they don't give good heating to the manifold (and most don't have a good flow for heating because of their crap design), the single carb will be generally unhappy.
Do you have a set budget? We could come up with a combo if we knew where you want to get and how much you're willing to spend. Spend it where it counts!
Hope this helps. |
Free,
The spec sheet says Facotry Jetting: 55 idle, 127.5 main, 70 air.
The replacement set is 60 idle, and 130 main.
At least this is easier to work on then my Kehin's and Mikuni's.
Donnie |
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Motorbike Don
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2018
Posts: 88
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
| As easy as an aircooled VW carburator is to install and remove. I would slap it on and see what you got. You might get lucky. |
Hoping to get lucky is not what a real mechanic does. |
You are right. They tend to disassembly when not needed, charge you for parts you don't need, replace tires that just need a plug.
Actually, I take that back. They do sometimes get UNLUCKY when one of us starts to question their BS.
No offense to honest mechanics everywhere.  All in good humor. |
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Motorbike Don
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2018
Posts: 88
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
| The pict 34 and the 009 are not a good match. |
Q-Dog,
Why are they not a good match?
Donnie |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8874
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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Lots of people report terrible hesitation with the pict 34/009 combo. My experience with the 009 and smaller carbs was fine, and lots use them with dual carbs.
Do a search here for "009 flat spot" and you should find plenty of reading material to keep you busy.
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Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
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Lingwendil
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Posts: 3999
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Frank Bassman
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2012
Posts: 904
Location: Miami
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Pict 34 out of the box set up |
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I've had great success with the empi 34 pict after they redid the molds. I've installed 5 on different cars and tbey all tuned easily and run great.
If you want to go and believe it's trash right off the bat I'll send you postage money so you can send it to me and I'll be sure to dispose of it for you. 
You'll be fine with the carb, just do clean it. Try the leaner jetting first but as others have said, it's the header size that will drive you nuts and have you blame the carb later.
-Frank |
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