Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Aftermarket horn for your Vanny?
Page: Previous  1, 2
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tobloyd
Samba Member


Joined: May 28, 2018
Posts: 116
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
tobloyd is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

I got an aftermarket horn & it started causing my fuse to blow immediately when I switched the car on. It turns out that for some odd reason VW is switching the ground instead of the positive lead, and the horn is expecting the reverseóit gets grounded directly to the chassis (I assume most aftermarket horns are like this). What is the *correct* way to handle this? Do I just zip tie it so it won't ground to the chassis and then hook up the two leads as one would with the stock horn?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
izzydog
Samba Member


Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 591

izzydog is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chojinchef wrote:
I would like some sort of delay built into my horns.


I installed a set of Hella two-tones a few years ago. An unexpected result of the install is that when I tap my horn quickly, I get the high side of the horn only. If I hold the button down, I get both sides and is considerably louder. I have no idea how to replicate this.

I like loud horns for idiot drivers but it's a bit much for folks in front of me daydreaming at a stop light or pedestrians. A light 'toot' is all that's usually required...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tim_ha
Samba Member


Joined: November 20, 2012
Posts: 158
Location: Boulder, CO
tim_ha is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

tobloyd wrote:
I got an aftermarket horn & it started causing my fuse to blow immediately when I switched the car on. It turns out that for some odd reason VW is switching the ground instead of the positive lead, and the horn is expecting the reverseóit gets grounded directly to the chassis (I assume most aftermarket horns are like this). What is the *correct* way to handle this? Do I just zip tie it so it won't ground to the chassis and then hook up the two leads as one would with the stock horn?


It sounds to me like the positive lead may be going directly to ground. Does the horn sound when you switch it on in the split second before the fuse blows? But, this doesn't answer your question.

For best results, you should add a relay that will supply the horn with a better ground path than the one going through the horn switch. If you want to DIY, check out this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=419209&start=0
There is a good wiring diagram with the mod you can do to add the relay.

The easier route is to just purchase and install this: https://www.vancafe.com/VCHORNRELAYKIT-p/vchornrelaykit.htm
_________________
1986 Syncro Sunroof EJ22
www.subagonsouth.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wcdennis
Samba Member


Joined: July 20, 2004
Posts: 882
Location: Winston-Salem NC
wcdennis is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

tobloyd wrote:
I got an aftermarket horn & it started causing my fuse to blow immediately when I switched the car on. It turns out that for some odd reason VW is switching the ground instead of the positive lead, and the horn is expecting the reverseóit gets grounded directly to the chassis (I assume most aftermarket horns are like this). What is the *correct* way to handle this? Do I just zip tie it so it won't ground to the chassis and then hook up the two leads as one would with the stock horn?


If your theory is correct, you could swap the wires on the horn and it would start blaring when you turn the key. Like you discovered, the 12v+ is constant and the horn button provides the ground. So, you would need to find some kind of rubber insulator to mount your horn so it doesn't make contact with the frame.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwwestyman
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 4660
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
vwwestyman is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chojinchef wrote:
I would like some sort of delay built into my horns. Say a couple seconds. Press horn and get stock beep, lay on horn and after delay interval get obnoxious 'you deserve all the noise I can throw at you' horns. I recently bought the Hella horns after being nearly run off the road by a 'phone to the ear' chippie in her dads audi. My horn was not nearly loud enough.

Feel a second button would be cause for stress and issue when you really need it.


I was reading this thread, was thinking the exact same thing, and saw this comment. I'll keep reading to see if this is a possibility!
_________________
Dave Cook
Stuartzickefoose wrote:
I'm gonna punch vwwestyman then shake his hand when I meet him.

notchboy wrote:
Ill just punch you in the face. Wink

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing
www.thefosterdads.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 6840
Location: Arizona
kamzcab86 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

tobloyd wrote:
What is the *correct* way to handle this?


When I installed dual-tone horns, I added a relay, wired like this guy did (diagram at 5:50):


Link


I've never had a problem.
_________________
~Kamz Anxious
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
Blue Vanagon 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction; the world will have a generation of idiots." ~Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dgbeatty
Samba Member


Joined: October 26, 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Sacramento
dgbeatty is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

Attached is the factory diagram for dual horns. It incorporates a relay to remove the load from the steering column. Equally useable for a single horn. Greatly improves operation.
Note - I uploaded a black and white version by mistake.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
When all else fails read the instructions. Schau in das Buch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pbrown
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2008
Posts: 313
Location: Seattle, WA
pbrown is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

Where do you install the new horn relay when upgrading horns? Can it go in the factory fuse/relay panel in an 86+?
_________________
Patrick Brown

1986 Vanagon Syncro Poptop (EJ25, Frt/Rear Lockers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dgbeatty
Samba Member


Joined: October 26, 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Sacramento
dgbeatty is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

As indicated the relay goes in position #6.
_________________
When all else fails read the instructions. Schau in das Buch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 12860
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are delayed 'engagement' relays.

you could add a small weathertite box down below and have the soft horn wired normal, and the loud horn wired with a 5s delay relay.

it 'should' cancel/interrupt the 5s relay function when you release the horn early yet allow the loud horn if held for more than 5s.

I can't get into the electrical theory bits at the moment..
but heres some delay on/delay off relays.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trk...p;_sacat=0

vwwestyman wrote:
chojinchef wrote:
I would like some sort of delay built into my horns. Say a couple seconds. Press horn and get stock beep, lay on horn and after delay interval get obnoxious 'you deserve all the noise I can throw at you' horns. I recently bought the Hella horns after being nearly run off the road by a 'phone to the ear' chippie in her dads audi. My horn was not nearly loud enough.

Feel a second button would be cause for stress and issue when you really need it.


I was reading this thread, was thinking the exact same thing, and saw this comment. I'll keep reading to see if this is a possibility!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pbrown
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2008
Posts: 313
Location: Seattle, WA
pbrown is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

I was studying the Bentley last night. My van is an 86 and so has the updated fuse/relay panel. My #6 relay position is empty. I didn't find any Vanagon factory wiring diagrams with a horn relay. My manual is very old and only covers up to 1989 so I may not have all the available data.

I also noticed that Van Cafe and GoWesty sell horn relay kits.

How hard is it to add the relay to position #6 and rearrange the wiring to match the diagram posted by dgbeatty? I was going to pull my fuse panel down and look but ran out of time. I like the idea if adding the relay to my panel if it's a practical solution.
_________________
Patrick Brown

1986 Vanagon Syncro Poptop (EJ25, Frt/Rear Lockers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
T3 Pilot
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1438
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
T3 Pilot is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

You need this connector for position L on the back of the panel
https://www.vancafe.com/171971997-p/171971997.htm
It includes pins. You also need a proper crimping tool and a pin removal tool to extract pins from the plugs.

Print out a copy of your current single horn diagram, and study it beside the dual horn diagram provided earlier in this thread.
It is a very practical solution.
_________________
1988 Vanagon

The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 6840
Location: Arizona
kamzcab86 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

pbrown wrote:
Where do you install the new horn relay when upgrading horns? Can it go in the factory fuse/relay panel in an 86+?
dgbeatty wrote:
As indicated the relay goes in position #6.


I installed mine above the horns. Rather simple job.
_________________
~Kamz Anxious
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
Blue Vanagon 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction; the world will have a generation of idiots." ~Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pbrown
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2008
Posts: 313
Location: Seattle, WA
pbrown is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:55 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

T3 Pilot wrote:
You need this connector for position L on the back of the panel
https://www.vancafe.com/171971997-p/171971997.htm
It includes pins. You also need a proper crimping tool and a pin removal tool to extract pins from the plugs.

Print out a copy of your current single horn diagram, and study it beside the dual horn diagram provided earlier in this thread.
It is a very practical solution.


Thanks for the link. I see that relay 6 is on at least three pins on that plug. The diagram above does not show where connection 2/30 of relay 6 goes. Iím assuming itís on L3. L1, L2, and L4 are the other connectors on the same relay as indicated in the diagram.
_________________
Patrick Brown

1986 Vanagon Syncro Poptop (EJ25, Frt/Rear Lockers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
T3 Pilot
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1438
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
T3 Pilot is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

Thatís right, 2/30 is connected internally through the panel to L3 which is the ground. Here is a link to the full colour version of the diagram in question with the ground that you wondered about included.

http://www.haywood-sullivan.com/vanagon/dual_horns_wiring_diagram.gif
_________________
1988 Vanagon

The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bajaleo
Samba Member


Joined: March 21, 2009
Posts: 154
Location: San Juan Capistrano, CA
bajaleo is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

I'm using the horns from the Subaru car that I cannibalized for my engine conversion. They're much louder and better sounding IMO than the oem horns.
_________________
Leo in SoCal
1984 Wolfie Westy, Subaru EJ22 powered.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
campism
Samba Member


Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 3733
Location: Richmond VA
campism is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket horn for your Vanny? Reply with quote

kamzcab86 wrote:
pbrown wrote:
Where do you install the new horn relay when upgrading horns? Can it go in the factory fuse/relay panel in an 86+?
dgbeatty wrote:
As indicated the relay goes in position #6.


I installed mine above the horns. Rather simple job.

Same here on my FLAPS dual Fiamme install. Recently one or the other spade connector on the relay has come loose (noticed before inspection, luckily) so I crimped the spade fittings with sidecutters to improve the contact then tried to tape everything into a weathertight bundle. We'll see what happens next time. You don't want your horn AWOL next time some clueless dweeb strays into your path.
_________________
'87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB