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1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

What should be done, Recently purchased This 1960 VW Beetle with it's (what looks to be it's Original)36 Horse engine, The car has 97200 mile on it and judging from the looks of the engine it may be the original or at least has not been rebuilt in years.
It has a little hiss sound in the tailpipe when I turn it over by hand. It's happening on #2 Compression. Wondering if I should rebuild it. Actually it runs fine after warming up.

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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Check your valve lash, then do a compression check or leakdown test if you suspect an exhaust valve is leaking. The compression check results and general condition of the engine (leaks, blowby, endplay, etc.) will tell you what needs to be done.

You can check the engine number against the car's VIN to see if it's likely the engine is the original.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Looks like an 009 swap, so not 100% original, but it may still be matching numbers and un-rebuilt.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Yeah, it's a real German 009 and it's a pretty clean running distributor. Condenser went turns out the one I ordered was for the original distributor but I had a 009 one on a spare junk distributor that fit.
I have set the valves. No point in doing a compression test I know #2 is leaking out the tail pipe. The question is how long should I be able to run it this way. I have put 3 or 4 hundred on it and it's a little better feeling on #2 Compression but I can still hear it leak. Hope it's not getting ready to drop a valve? Do 36 horse engines drop valves? No Smoke! Engine runs a little Hot Oil Temp has hit 117' F.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Since you seem certain that #2 exhaust valve is leaking, why are you here asking questions instead of removing the head for a valve job? Yes, even the mighty 36 horse can drop a valve.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Ok, I want to rebuild it completely but for sure could patch it. Tracking the valves:
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

In a situation like this you should check compression before and after valve adjustment .
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 4:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

On your valve clearance list, #2 started as tight.

Tight means the valve doesn't rest against the cylinder head valve seat at all or long enough to disperse its built up heat.

This is what can easily burn a valves edge.

Pulling a head is childs play. Much preferred over dropping a valve.

I'd park it, yank the engine and fix it sooner rather than later.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Getting the engine in and out is kind of a big deal for me. I have not done it since 2013 on my bus then. Had quite a hard time. I want to fix the 60 trans miss match to the 61-66 trans in it while I am at it. Also the later 61-66 trans in it has a lot of wear and makes a bit of noise in neutral and different noises in different gears and jumps out of 3rd on hills. I have never rebuilt a trans and with the exhaust valve leaking like this I will probably not drive it much till all is repaired. One reason I chose a 1960 is because it has a 36 horse and I am looking forward to tearing it down. I saw this ad 36HP Rocker Arm Solid Shaft/911 Adjuster Services Price: $150/$65 where a guy makes the rockers solid any ideas on if that's a good thing to do?
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Every minute you drive it before teardown is another minute of Russian (German?) roulette on grenading your engine and buying a new one. Is it worth it?
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

1960-only dipsticks had red-painted handles and usually have traces of red paint visible, even after almost 60 years. I don't see any red on your dipstick.

If you have the original transaxle, it is important to have the red dipstick, as the engine sits at a different angle than earlier 36hp engines and the oil level marks are different on the '60 stick.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

janerick3 wrote:
1960-only dipsticks had red-painted handles and usually have traces of red paint visible, even after almost 60 years. I don't see any red on your dipstick.

If you have the original transaxle, it is important to have the red dipstick, as the engine sits at a different angle than earlier 36hp engines and the oil level marks are different on the '60 stick.


Wow!
Stuff one never knew! ^^^^^^
I honestly haven't any memory if my 60 had a red dipstick or not...... but it was a very very very long time ago. They were still selling Beetles and Buses at VW Dealerships.

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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
janerick3 wrote:
1960-only dipsticks had red-painted handles and usually have traces of red paint visible, even after almost 60 years. I don't see any red on your dipstick.

If you have the original transaxle, it is important to have the red dipstick, as the engine sits at a different angle than earlier 36hp engines and the oil level marks are different on the '60 stick.


Wow!
Stuff one never knew! ^^^^^^
I honestly haven't any memory if my 60 had a red dipstick or not...... but it was a very very very long time ago. They were still selling Beetles and Buses at VW Dealerships.

Dave

Pic from the gallery showing the '60 only dipstick on the left, standard 36hp dipstick on the right. The driveline angle was changed so the trans sat slightly nose low versus the previous setup where the driveline was level -- the dipstick marks were changed to account for the new angle. Using an earlier dipstick on a stock '60 will result in slightly overfilling the engine if you insist on taking the oil up to the full mark, maybe an extra cup to less than a pint worth.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: 36 Horse Solid Rocker Shafts Reply with quote

About those Solid Rockers anyone tried them? 36HP Rocker Arm Solid Shaft/911 Adjuster Services Price: $150/$65
djkeev wrote:
On your valve clearance list, #2 started as tight. Dave
It's the intake valve that was tight. The #2 Exhaust was .006".

This Beetle's dipstick has a touch of RED and has the lower marks too.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Quote:
Getting the engine in and out is kind of a big deal for me. I have not done it since 2013 on my bus then. Had quite a hard time.


A `60 Beetle engine should be much easier to pull than a `71 Bus engine.
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: 36 Horse Solid Rocker Shafts Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:

djkeev wrote:
On your valve clearance list, #2 started as tight. Dave
It's the intake valve that was tight. The #2 Exhaust was .006".

]


Of course! Shame on me!!!

Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:

Pic from the gallery showing the '60 only dipstick on the left, standard 36hp dipstick on the right. The driveline angle was changed so the trans sat slightly nose low versus the previous setup where the driveline was level -- the dipstick marks were changed to account for the new angle. Using an earlier dipstick on a stock '60 will result in slightly overfilling the engine if you insist on taking the oil up to the full mark, maybe an extra cup to less than a pint worth.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Hi Mukluk,
Thanks for the 60 vs 36hp dipstick oil level comparison. Do you know the measurements to the lines on each? Iím trying to find out what stick I have.
Also, what would be the correct fill line placements if Iím running a 1600 in my Ď60? Would I have the same drivetrain angle, and thus should I still have the Ď60 stick fill lines?
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

sonoma_vw wrote:

Hi Mukluk,
Thanks for the 60 vs 36hp dipstick oil level comparison. Do you know the measurements to the lines on each? Iím trying to find out what stick I have.
Also, what would be the correct fill line placements if Iím running a 1600 in my Ď60? Would I have the same drivetrain angle, and thus should I still have the Ď60 stick fill lines?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Regarding what level to fill your 1600-equipped '60 to, my best advice would be this: next time you change the oil in the car, preferably whilst the vehicle is on a level surface, fill the engine with as close as humanly possible to 2.53 quarts of oil and take note of where that level lies on the dipstick; that will be your full mark. Adjust the marks on your dipstick as required. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
Getting the engine in and out is kind of a big deal for me. I have not done it since 2013 on my bus then. Had quite a hard time. I want to fix the 60 trans miss match to the 61-66 trans in it while I am at it. Also the later 61-66 trans in it has a lot of wear and makes a bit of noise in neutral and different noises in different gears and jumps out of 3rd on hills. I have never rebuilt a trans and with the exhaust valve leaking like this I will probably not drive it much till all is repaired. One reason I chose a 1960 is because it has a 36 horse and I am looking forward to tearing it down. I saw this ad 36HP Rocker Arm Solid Shaft/911 Adjuster Services Price: $150/$65 where a guy makes the rockers solid any ideas on if that's a good thing to do?


I would not attempt to rebuild your transmission without getting very familiar with the process first. You'll need a shift fork jig, press, gear stack removal tool, pinion nut socket/or alignment studs (depending on trans year), etc. You can see some of this stuff in my bug build thread. Cost of tools and labor add up extremely fast.
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Original 36 Horse Reply with quote

TinCanFab wrote:
Danwvw wrote:
Getting the engine in and out is kind of a big deal for me. I have not done it since 2013 on my bus then. Had quite a hard time. I want to fix the 60 trans miss match to the 61-66 trans in it while I am at it. Also the later 61-66 trans in it has a lot of wear and makes a bit of noise in neutral and different noises in different gears and jumps out of 3rd on hills. I have never rebuilt a trans and with the exhaust valve leaking like this I will probably not drive it much till all is repaired. One reason I chose a 1960 is because it has a 36 horse and I am looking forward to tearing it down. I saw this ad 36HP Rocker Arm Solid Shaft/911 Adjuster Services Price: $150/$65 where a guy makes the rockers solid any ideas on if that's a good thing to do?


I would not attempt to rebuild your transmission without getting very familiar with the process first. You'll need a shift fork jig, press, gear stack removal tool, pinion nut socket/or alignment studs (depending on trans year), etc. You can see some of this stuff in my bug build thread. Cost of tools and labor add up extremely fast.

Thanks for the replies, Not Sure what to do yet, Sill in the Day Dream Stage. And. Want to definitely avoid any NightMares! Sounds like a Professionally Rebuilt Trans will be needed.
Back to the 36 Horse Engine Rebuild Day Dream: When I do Rebuild the 36, are there any modifications that can be done and would they devalue the car? I Love the way the Stock 36 Horse moves the car around around town. It's part of the experience I was seeking when we purchased the 1960 beetle.
I see AA has the 80mm P&C Kits now but don't they need the case spigots opened and wouldn't they use a little more gas? Would they devalue the car? What about full flow oil modifications so a filter could be added? That would probably
Quote:
devalue
it too?
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