Torsion bar bushing/ cover

[Mark1303]

Hi all

I noticed recently my torsion bar cover plates (1303 / Super with IRS) were rusty and a bit of poking around with a screwdriver revealed some holes, so I ordered some new ones along with outer bushes which I figured would also probably be shot.

I've removed the cover plate and outer bush on one side, and the bush is indeed quite deformed by the plate corroding and expanding.

My understanding was that I should be able to reinstall the new outer bush and cover plate with the car off the ground, spring plate jacked up as far as it will go without lifting the car off the jack stands, and using 2 long bolts to drag the new cover on once the new bushing was in place (to then be replaced by the stock short bolts).

I got the new outer bushing on OK, but cannot get the cover on. The bolt holes are well out of alignment, so that I can only just get the long bolts into the holes, but when tightening the upper one goes in easily but the lower gets progressively harder to turn until it can't be turned (still about an inch away from home). The top of the hole on the plate cover is scraping against the torsion bar cover at this point. I tried with the new bushing and then the old one, the latter could get closer as it's smaller, but still isn't going to happen!

Is this likely because the inner bushings are badly worn and should also be replaced? Or is my procedure wrong? The Haynes says to raise the plate above the stop lug on the frame casting before reinstalling the cover plate, but that's a long way off even if I jack up the car on just the spring plate, I reckon I'd need an elephant sat in the back. Does that mean my shocks are knackered?

Just to confirm, I haven't undone any other parts other than the cover plate and removing the "doughnut" outer bushing!!

A few photos to hopefully help illustrate it...

Thanks for any responses

[Multi69s]

Let's put it this way, sometimes you do everything right and it is still a Bi%#th. My recommendation would be to get longer bolts. Then grind the bolts sort of to a point. Slide the cover further out and see if you can get all four bolts started then. If so then start tightening the bolts down, and when the cover gets closer, put in the shorter bolts.
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[Mark1303]

Thanks for your reply. I did get two long bolts into diagonal holes and tightened up most of the way. The problem was that the holes in the frame and the holes in the cover plate were not aligned, so much so that it became impossible to do the lower one up any further - when I undid it again there were some metal shavings from the thread, so it was under a lot of stress. The upper one was going in ok. The top of the hole in the cover plate was scraping against the torsion bar cover, and I could get my finger into the space under the bushing where it was being deformed. Also could see by looking that the bush was being severely squashed downwards at the top by the cover plate.

I did try with the spring plate jacked up, and with it lowered so the suspension was hanging. Neither seemed to make a difference.

Anyone know what could be causing the misalignment? Could it be the inner bushes are out of shape and allowing the torsion bar cover to drop down?

I'm hoping to avoid getting too far into dismantling the rear suspension as I'm working in the street with no option of a driveway or garage here in London, but I'm starting to think I'm going to have to

[baldessariclan]

Couple thoughts on the problem you’re describing:

1) Try comparing the bolt hole locations and other dimensions between your original (rusted) cover plates and your new replacement cover plates — if aftermarket, maybe they don’t match, or have other quality issues - ?

2) It’s been a while since I’ve monkeyed around w/ spring plates and bushings, but I seem to have a faint recollection of starting to pull down the cover plates (w/ longer bolts) when the spring plate arm was hanging free, down below the little stop tab/shelf on the frame. I think I tightened / pulled in the cover plate quite a bit in this position, and then raised the spring plate arm to just clear the stop tab/shelf. From there, I tightened the cover plate rest of the way down.

I do remember it being bit of a fiddly & tedious operation — had to chase the threaded holes in the frame w/ a tap to remove dirt and rust, plus used anti-seize paste on the bolt and frame hole threads, to help keep them from galling while slowly working and pulling the cover plate down.
_________________
1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver

baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt...

[pondoras box]

Either talcum powder or better yet silicone spray is your friend. When you slide the cover on a lot of rocking and twisting to get the bushing to seat also. It will go on. I’ve never had to use longer bolts yet but I do only use original covers might be the difference.
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Plus a lot of other rusty junk

[baldessariclan]

[VW_Jimbo]

x3 on using a lubricant to help with the install. Those bushings are a BITCH! I went through this on my 54 build and show the Silicon Paste I use. It is AWESOME stuff! Makes the job easier!

It is past the middle point of the page.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...start=1700
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[Mark1303]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.

I had another go at it today and finally got the cover on with all 4 stock bolts after about 2 hours of various combinations of bolts, hammering and bloodshed.

Unfortunately the torsion bar cover is still touching the top of the hole in the cover plate though, I'm sure it should be central in the hole?

I took the car for a quick drive, there was some creaking/squawking from the rear for the first 20 seconds but it quietened down after that. I used rubber bushings and a silicon paste similar to that suggested by VWJimbo (mine is supposed to be for brakes and clutches but it's fine with rubber and made getting the bush over the torsion bar cover easy).

Anyway... At least the car is driveable again. I need to work out why the bar isn't central before doing the other side. I guess I might need to reindex the bars or go the whole hog on new inner bushes as well...

Cheers

[edjose17]

The misalignment is caused by worn bushings. See a comparison of the position of the torsion bar cover before and after the change on my super beetle.

[Mark1303]

Thanks Edjose17. This is what I had suspected! As the outer bushing is new, the inner must be really worn out.

I'll buy a pair of inner bushes and get those done ASAP!

Quick question - did you do anything else at the same time, such as reindexing the spring plates or replacing any other bushes?

Cheers

[edjose17]

See a comparison of the new and old bushings. You'll see the elongation on the old one, contributing to the torsion bar cover not being centered. My recommendation is to get the Energy Suspension Bushings. Should get longer life than the rubber bushings. Look by the part number someone local to you.
https://www.energysuspensionparts.com/15.2109

At the same time I did the trailing arm bushings. Easier since the trailing arm is disconnected from the torsion bar. Again I went with these ones. Only you have to remove the inner rubber part of the original bushing (don't need a press) and install these new ones.
https://www.energysuspensionparts.com/15.3105

[Mark1303]

Yes, I can see now why the bar was sagging, those bushes are quite badly deformed!

I've ordered the new bushes, decided in the end to go for stock good quality rubber ones, as the car is stock and I prefer a softer ride, but appreciate the recommendations nonetheless.

Thanks again!

[mdege]

I don't know if anybody mentioned it. There is a left and a right version of the inner bushing. Be sure to install them in the correct location.
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1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
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[Mark1303]

Thanks mdege, yes I am aware they are sided and will ensure I get them the correct way around. Currently waiting for parts to arrive, hopefully I'll have it back on the road by the weekend as there is a VW car show I'm hoping to attend on Sunday (Stonor Park)!

Cheers

[johnnyvw164]

I just recently had a shop do this on my 69 (getting to old for this sort of work LOL). I went with urethane outer bushings but rubber inner one...figured if I didn't like the ride and/or noise transmission I could change to outer ones to standard rubber without too much difficulty (I was warned they would squeek like crazy no matter how much of the "special grease" was put on them). Also upgraded to 944 torsion bars while I was at it. So far I'm liking the results. The car sits nearly dead level (at stock height). The shop said they set the bars at the same droop angle as the stock ones, they hit it right first shot.

[Mark1303]

Ok, so the inner torsion bushes finally arrived and so I had another go at fitting them yesterday.

I got everything apart ok, but found I cannot get the torsion bar past the rear wing. I suppose I should have realised this, but for some reason I thought the torsion bar didn't go to the end of the tube and that I'd be able to get the spring plate off.

The issue I have is that someone in the past has welded the bottom of the wing to the body during previous repairs! As I don't have a driveway or garage and am working in the street I don't have the option of an angle grinder or even dremmel to cut the wing off the body! Annoyingly it also meant I had to put everything back as it was as I can't leave the car unattended on stands.

i can drive the car to my parents house to work on but it's a 200 mile round trip so that would have to wait...

I presume my options are limited to:

1) cut wing free, or
2) try to remove the torsion bar on the other side to see if I can get both bars out that side.

Any other ideas welcome!!

Cheers

[radstude]

Their is types of spring plate covers, for different year bugs, ghia, type 3’s.
Maybe you have the wrong type.
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[baldessariclan]

[VW_Jimbo]

[Mark1303]