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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3068
Location: Portland, Oregon
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 Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Progress : T3 Full Flow plumbing |
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Here's my original, OLD setup, done pre-2000 (i.e. over 16 years ago):
http://www.aircoolednut.com/erkson/ttt/engine/full_flow_oil_system/full_flow.htm
As can be seen in previous posts, oil flow routing has improved. All those brass fittings and their sharp bends are a method I would not recommend as they impair oil flow and pressure.
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Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23364
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Progress : T3 Full Flow plumbing |
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| Fuscao72 wrote: |
I will be using an aluminun new block from our local plant AUTOLINEA. I am not a big fan from that stuff as I do know they are suppose to run a few deggres hotter than the OEM VW case. But I have got it for free in order to test so I will do it. |
I've been running an all aluminum case engine in my 65 Notch for 10 years now. While it's just a "little" 1600, it's been a great engine. The biggest issue I've had with it though is boiling of mechanical fuel pumps. After I had 2 of them do this, I switched to an electric pump, and haven't had an issue since. That was 6 years ago that I switched. Just something to keep in mind.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3068
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Progress : T3 Full Flow plumbing |
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In a nutshell: The external oil cooler setups are for non-stock engines that produce more heat.
The stock engine does a fine job of keeping the engine cool. If the engine is built to put out more power it will generate more heat. The stock cooling systems can only remove so much excess heat by air and oil cooling. I think that modifying the oil cooling system is easier to accomplish than modifying the air cooling system. The fact that the oil is helping to provide internal cooling is a benefit as it is more immediate.
One thing I believe that people should be aware of is that an engine is designed to be hot so it's important that it doesn't get over-cooled. The engineers knew this when designing the air and oil cooling systems for these engines. The same thought should go into external oil coolers. There are oil thermostats to switch on cooling fans and there are ones that can regulate the flow of oil to the external cooler or not. I've employed both on my external oil cooler setup. This insures the oil doesn't get over-cooled and negatively affect the engine's performance.
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Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
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Fuscao72
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Curitiba, Parana, Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Progress : T3 Full Flow plumbing |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
the easiest way to get full flow is welding threaded bungs on the case, and putting a plug between them. If you have someone who can weld magnesium that is.
otherwise you have to work the plumbing around the fan housing.
I have an external cooler mounted to the pan cross member and filter attached to the bumper mounting holes.
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I will be using an aluminun new block from our local plant AUTOLINEA. I am not a big fan from that stuff as I do know they are suppose to run a few deggres hotter than the OEM VW case. But I have got it for free in order to test so I will do it. My main concern is not the way I should go full flowing the engine but my doubt is (you are the first folk using it I have seen) why just a few like going with an external extra oil radiator in a type lll. Thanx anyway for the tip and greetings. |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 5291
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Progress : T3 Full Flow plumbing |
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the easiest way to get full flow is welding threaded bungs on the case, and putting a plug between them. If you have someone who can weld magnesium that is.
otherwise you have to work the plumbing around the fan housing.
I have an external cooler mounted to the pan cross member and filter attached to the bumper mounting holes.
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1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
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Fuscao72
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Curitiba, Parana, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Progress : T3 Full Flow plumbing |
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Hello folks!
I am not new into the air cooled VW hobby but a beginner when talking about Type 3. A few months back I have bought from the first owner a 1974 Brazilian made VW Variant 1600. Basically, it is the same as its european counter part. Being very true I had no idea how cool could be a type 3!
Surely, I am building a new 82x94 for her keeping the cam ( Engle FK 42), CR of 8.50:1 ( we have 30% of alcohol added to our pump gas ), the carburetors will be a pair of Solexes 34 mm and other things at a safe range. All my life I have heard about type 3 having highier ranges of operation temperatures. Then, the first thing I did was providing a reliable VDO set of gauges ( including a Cyl and Oil temp)in order to monitor the OEM motor. So far, I ain't seen no big deal differences between her and an OEM Fusca (the same as Beetle there), but I haven't faced yet the melting summer climate we have around here sometimes. So, along the already ordered GB oil pump cover that allows installing a full flow oil filtering system I was having toughts installing one extra oil cooler to deal with the extra heat a larger engine will build. Oh yeah, an oil thermostat has been ordered too as in my state the temps vary galore in a matter of days, sometimes it is just hours. Keep in mind the original VW thermostat has been removed from my current engine but I already located and bought a NOS system. Being an USA usual California and others American states visiting guy, I have faced very hot seasons up there and seems strange, at least to me, why nobody even talks about hanging an extra oil radiator even in engines with more displacement? Any input will very appreciated and greetings from Brazil. 
Last edited by Fuscao72 on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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redbug74
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2004
Posts: 292
Location: Far West Texas
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Killer installation. Gives me ideas when I get ready freshen up the motor in my square.
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localboy
Samba Longboarder
Joined: December 06, 2003
Posts: 5153
Location: "Mainland", PNW
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Agree, Russ. I fab'd a simple bracket to use the bumper mounting location with just longer bolts. My oil filter sits above the driver's side bumper bracket and the steel braided hoses clear the headers by a few inches. Now if I could only get the breather box hoses to run so cleanly. 
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Black '65 Resto-Custom S Notch 2110 cc powered
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Russ Wolfe
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Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know if I like the filter that close to the headers. It will add heat to the oil.
And, it looks like you are not an IRS engine with the cross member.
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Critter1
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Here are some pics of how mine was done. Had to shave some material off the back of the shroud as well as shave some meat off the brass fitting.
This filter mount worked for me since I have merged headers and no heater boxes.
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Max Welton
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Location: Black Forest, CO
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dcdubs
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Joined: January 29, 2003
Posts: 860
Location: the Great Northwest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: |
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notched has the right idea...no reason for messing with anything else....then you can stil run the cool 1500 super oil pump cover 
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3068
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| FASTBACKDON wrote: |
| the secret is the Gene Berg type 3 full flow pump cover |
True...but the Berg pressure regulating unit is the better choice. Keeps your oil filter from exploding
P.S. I like Phillip's solution the best!
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Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
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Max Welton
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localboy
Samba Longboarder
Joined: December 06, 2003
Posts: 5153
Location: "Mainland", PNW
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Max Welton wrote: |
Unless I am mistaken, the only difference between the Berg type-1 and type-3 kits are the fittings. I just changed the fittings on mine.
Max |
Yeah it's got a different brass fitting that's slightly clearanced on one side to clear the fan housing.
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One man's "patina" is another man's cancer...
Black '65 Resto-Custom S Notch 2110 cc powered
original paint Pearl White '66 Westy SO-42
Allstate single-wheel trailer project
Last edited by localboy on Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Notched
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 2365
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I really like my engine builders plan. No angles... No adjusting anything...
If you look closely, there is a brass block off between the holes.
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Phillip Bradfield
Current stock: '57 Panel Bus, '63 Rat Notch, '64 Baja, '66 Variant, '67 Convertible Ghia, '68 Squareback, '69 Squareback, '69 Fastback
Southern Oregon VW Club -- http://www.sovw.org
Oregon VW Forum -- http://www.oregonvw.org |
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Max Welton
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Location: Black Forest, CO
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localboy
Samba Longboarder
Joined: December 06, 2003
Posts: 5153
Location: "Mainland", PNW
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| FASTBACKDON wrote: |
| localboymark wrote: |
| The Gene Berg kit does a good job but it's still a very tight fit back there. My fan housing still required very minor clearancing. |
Really? Ok thanks for the warning I need a berg fullflow for my 2 liter. what clearancing is involved send or post pictures.
Thanks Mark
Don |
Really minor though, Don. Mainly one of the raised "fins" on the rear molded into the housing for strengthening. I'll see if I can find a pic of it. If not I have to raise it up and crawl under there for some pics for Brian so I'll try to get some as best as possible.
Like I said; it's a tight fit. God forbid it leaks from one of the fittings.  I'd have to take apart the entire fan housing etc. just to get to it.
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One man's "patina" is another man's cancer...
Black '65 Resto-Custom S Notch 2110 cc powered
original paint Pearl White '66 Westy SO-42
Allstate single-wheel trailer project |
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FASTBACKDON
The other insensitive jerk like Neil
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 3592
Location: TORRANCE CALIF
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| localboymark wrote: |
| The Gene Berg kit does a good job but it's still a very tight fit back there. My fan housing still required very minor clearancing. |
Really? Ok thanks for the warning I need a berg fullflow for my 2 liter. what clearancing is involved send or post pictures.
Thanks Mark
Don
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localboy
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Joined: December 06, 2003
Posts: 5153
Location: "Mainland", PNW
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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The Gene Berg kit does a good job but it's still a very tight fit back there. My fan housing still required very minor clearancing.
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One man's "patina" is another man's cancer...
Black '65 Resto-Custom S Notch 2110 cc powered
original paint Pearl White '66 Westy SO-42
Allstate single-wheel trailer project |
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