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dobryan 
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17281
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Jeffrey Lee
Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2014
Posts: 1520
Location: Wisconsin
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 Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Putting out an engine fire |
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An ABC Halotron I extinguisher is perhaps the most effective, as it will knock out most fires, and doesn't have the same toxic and corrosive agents as other types.
If you use your Vanagon for camping, you have a few additional fire threats with cooking, portable heaters, etc.. So, we carry a couple of compact ACK Potassium Lactate & Nitrogen Aerosol extinguishers, too. This is the only type specifically rated for cooking oil & grease fires.
More info on choosing and using fire extinguishers in your Westy here:
https://campwestfalia.com/fire-extinguishers-camper-van/ |
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mtnride1
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2011
Posts: 194
Location: la quinta, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Putting out an engine fire |
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I have a blazecut in my van and a clean agent back-up extinguisher in cabinet behind drivers seat. I also check all my fuel lines regularly. Should I ever have a fire I think the blazecut will hold it down if not knock it out, I can then use my clean agent through the license plate hole if needed and leave the engine cover in place. Then disconnect all the batteries.
_________________
87 westy 2wd (NED) |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 24298
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Putting out an engine fire |
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Counterpoint for thought.
Why does every car on the road today use high pressure fuel injection, and are, on average, 11 years old, And don’t catch fire , and don’t have Blazecuts?
Why don’t people stop fires by maintain their cars instead of trying to put them out afterwards?
_________________
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊 |
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T3 Pilot
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1509
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Putting out an engine fire |
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https://elementfire.com/pages/comparison
_________________
1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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RainierSyncro
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2013
Posts: 816
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Putting out an engine fire |
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| One could install a Bazecut to the engine lid. It will give you a warning when it goes off and will knock the fire out or at least give you some extra time to put it out yourself. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 8242
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Putting out an engine fire |
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I’m becoming paranoid about flying debris in an emergency stop...mostly when I see unsecured stuff in other people’s vans. I need to apply the same paranoia to my van.
_________________
- Jim
| Butcher wrote: |
| This is the main fault with DIY'ers, they get together on these forums and pat themselves on their backs spreading bad information. |
Guilty as charged.
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dubbified
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 1508
Location: Redmond, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Waldemar Sikorski wrote: |
Why not come up with a custom design?
One extinguisher stationary, feeding two nozzles in the bay, remotely operated from the cabin area with a mechanical backup. Second one as originally intended. |
I have installed many nozzle and plumbing based systems.. you can go to pretty much any place and get nozzles, order them online.. and then build in a system.. Stainless steel tubing and associated fittings shouldn't be so difficult.. Hmm.. new priority for me.. damn.  |
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akyrie
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2010
Posts: 519
Location: Driftless, Wisco
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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So nobody here wants to admit a fire? well here is what happened to ME with my 86 'gon not gone for good.
I had an electrical short/spark from my alternator that burned through my fuel line. ...And we had a fire. I only had the small extinguisher but was able to get it under control. I no longer carry the small extinguisher but the big household sized ones. the fire raging out the back, I ran back and used the extinguisher from the bottom. I think that the licence plate will be to hot to hold or keep open in this panicky time frame. Go from below until no fire is evident. Get some help.
This is where I made a mistake that almost cost me my van. I opened the hatch. I couldn't see any flames, and thought I would get some good action from the top side, but it was all action I didn't want. Big ball of flame, shot up past the top of the rear hatch that was open. I ducked and only received a fine de-hairment on my arms. lucky again. With the little dribble of extinguisher left i was able to put it out.
Do not open the hatch, get all your extinguishing needs out from below! changing your fuel lines doesn't always prevent fire!
_________________
Although I got a funny message from the Porsche guys, it read, "what a mighty ship that you must sail"
....has anyone else received that?
82 AHU DK, 1950's Puch-black |
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donnieb
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2012
Posts: 1
Location: silver city new mexico
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I've had 2 vanagons and 3 transporters and have never personally had an engine fire. A friend asked me to do some work on his tired, old wasserboxer in his '85 westy. I immediately saw that his fuel lines were beyond messed up. Just like everything else. Anyway, I tightened a couple of hose clamps and started the engine. Then, all of the sudden one of the lines blew and FOOM! up in flames. my buddy who owns the van grabs his liitle fire extinguisher and attempted to put the fire out only to find that the thing was not working. I ran next door to the pizza shop and grabbed their fire extinguisher off of the wall and was able to put the fire out in time. The moral of this story is, If you have a vw and you want to keep it un-crispy, replace all of your fuel lines. You should also make sure that the plastic lines are still in good shape as well. I'm going to replace the plastic lines with metal ones just to be sure. the newer vanagons have issues with the compensator tube and tank gaskets as well. If your van leaks when you fill up, this is why. Also, buy a good fire extinguisher!
Good luck! |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5543
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Waldemar Sikorski wrote: |
Why not come up with a custom design?
One extinguisher stationary, feeding two nozzles in the bay, remotely operated from the cabin area with a mechanical backup. Second one as originally intended. |
Here is the system that I am planning on using (when I get around to it):
http://www.firecharger.com/index.html
It is a AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) type system. I have talked to the Firecharger people about hazardous cleanup fees should I discharge the system in a populated area (for example) and whether the chemicals involved are corrosive. I have been told that this is the same foam recipe that the fire departments use on a daily basis, just on a smaller scale. When asked what the scene of a discharge would look like, I was told that it looks mostly like water with some slight foaming after the fact. Supposedly corrosion is not much of a problem if the area (mainly bare metals) is hosed off with water within a week of discharge. The bottles are completely owner rechargable.
The only downside to this system (that I could find besides the clean-up) is that it is water based, so if a user lives in a colder climate, it might not be the best choice. Although it does get cold enough to freeze here in Seattle, it is generally not that cold. The bottle placement would be under the rear seat (where it has also been insulated) where I'm pretty confident that it will never see freezing temps.
For colder climates, FireBottle sells a similar manually operated remote system that is Halon based.
http://www.hrpworld.net/index.cfm?form_prod_id=294,587_735&action=product
I have placed a call to FireBottle about the Halon phase-out and have been told that the newer systems use FE-241 which is still compliant.
Another interesting product is The Stinger made by Sea-Fire. It is an automaticlly discharged system that uses thin tube that mounted in the engine compartment. This tube ruptures at 175º F discharging it's FM-200 based agent. Kind of spendy though.
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=100420F&WT.mc_id=gb1
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Alan Brase
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Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4570
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I suppose that race cars at some level have to have installed fire systems, so I suppose places like Summit racing might be suppliers?
But the biggest part is AWARENESS and we are already there. Now that we are there, we just fix the threats, then get a portable fire extinguisher " just in case".
Just in case for me has been able to put out 2 fires in other peoples's cars. Never needed it for my own!
And, I want my fuel lines to not leak anyway. New fuel lines cost less than even 1 tank of gas these days.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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RCB
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Well TK's too busy making stainless steel mufflers and pipes so whos available? |
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Waldemar Sikorski
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Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 573
Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Why not come up with a custom design?
One extinguisher stationary, feeding two nozzles in the bay, remotely operated from the cabin area with a mechanical backup. Second one as originally intended. |
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tikibus
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2006
Posts: 834
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Seeing first hand of what a engine fire can do on a Bay within 20 sec's is scary. As luck would have it another Bay was right behind ( comin' in to Westies at Watkins '07). Thank goodness the attentive person did the right thing and kept a very cool head, kept the fire from really hurting the Bay.
The graphic that Devesvws posted is important for all of us. Either our Homes and Vehicles depend on a cool head and knowing what to do.
* if driving on fuel lines that are original to the engine or year of make, I'll make the plea to replace now* Even more so the plastic Y that sits between fire wall ( tranny) to engine bay. Replace with new part only.
Removing tin, etc., etc. won't do squat. Removing the tin just gives splash up from tire more of a chance to do more damage.
Replacing with correct fuel lines and clamps ( even the Fuel Rails too!) means POM.
_________________
Happy Trails!
Mark
______________
Founding member of the Empire State VW Camping Club.
http://www.empirevwcamping.org/
1984 Westy - Tiki
1997 Honda Civic -The Green Hornet
1971 Volvo P-1800E- needs TLC |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 4023
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: fire |
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my 86 vanagon engine bay fuel hoses rotted and leaked, big pool of gas on ground when engine stalled, no fire, replaced hoses
best bet is to prevnet fire, check/change the hoses, theyare all 20+ years old now mainly.
like the licsence plate idea, and yes halon is the bestest, but dry chem is cheaper, make sure youcan afford one big enough, what bitch to fighta fire and run out! been there, done that, total loss (non-VW truck) had jusk enough to stop fire on my other VW (bug motor pipe slipped out of carb, big gas leak,a dn fire)
best bet is a fuel cut off switch, that electrically cut off flow at the tank in case of line failureat turn of switch on dash, then solid mount halon bottle to discharge in engine bay, activate by cable pull on dash.! |
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tclark
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Joined: November 21, 2005
Posts: 926
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
This is where Halon really shines--
It'll knock the hell outa the fire --right now--so the chances of a flare up after you think the fire is out is nil.
Damn the green people--it's my fire, and my ride.
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keep both happy 3M™ Novec
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Novec1230/Home/ |
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devesvws
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Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 1540
Location: madison va
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| just a reminder. there are different types of fire extinguishers for different types of fires. being a trucker our extinguisher must be in reach at all times when driving its the law |
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