| Author |
Message |
Scotty D
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Claremont CA
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
 |
|
| jeremydoc wrote: |
Hey doods! Bringing this thread back to life. The future is now. Write ups are a thing of the past, so I made a Short Axle Swap video. Of course, this only applies to my specific year, and for what I specifically want. Yours might differ
Link
|
Too funny. I saw this thread pop up and you were the first person I thought of. 🤙🏼 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jeremydoc
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2013
Posts: 114
Location: Gardena, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:03 am Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
Hey doods! Bringing this thread back to life. The future is now. Write ups are a thing of the past, so I made a Short Axle Swap video. Of course, this only applies to my specific year, and for what I specifically want. Yours might differ
Link
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HenrikL
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 320
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:33 am Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
| There seems to be some tolerances when using aftermarket parts. I used 5/130 Type 1 drums on the back of my short-axle Type 3 and I had to take 3 mm on the inside of the drum and 13 mm on the outside. Otherwise the drum was too far away from the backing plate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tanhis
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2005
Posts: 659
Location: Rauma Finland
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
| pitargue wrote: |
Um, just the outer side needs to be trimmed off so that the axle nut can be torqued down and then a cotter pin added. Otherwise, there's no way to put the cotter pin through the axle since the castle portion of the axle nut won't be down enough. Everything else is exactly same.
Did you swap out your axle bearing caps? |
Yes I have the correct bearing caps otherwise the sealing would not work.
And you if you do not shorten from the outside you would not be able to put the cotter pin trough the axle nut and the axle.
But this is not the issue.
Issue is that the drum might not go close enough to the backing plate what defines the location of the shoes. I do not know is the issue only with aftermarket drums or also with originals. And this is only few millimeters that would need to be taken from the inside.
And I will take pictures of the issue once I get my car to the winter storage.
_________________
-58 Typ2 ambulance
-62 Typ 34
-65 Typ 34
-73 411 variant all metal custom
-69 typ 2, 9 seater
-89 vanagon camper conversion matkaaja
-08 3.0tdi phaeton |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23391
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:12 am Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
| pitargue wrote: |
Um, just the outer side needs to be trimmed off so that the axle nut can be torqued down and then a cotter pin added. Otherwise, there's no way to put the cotter pin through the axle since the castle portion of the axle nut won't be down enough. Everything else is exactly same.
Did you swap out your axle bearing caps? |
Yup, just the outside needs to be trimmed (the difference in the length of the splines). If you trim any from the inside, you'll put the brake shoes into the drum when tightening the big axle nut (wide 5 or 4 lug), and the wheel assembly may not turn.
I did this swap on a 66 type 1 Ghia, and used short 64 bug axles, and drums that had the 15mm already taken off. Everything worked just fine.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pitargue
Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2006
Posts: 239
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
Um, just the outer side needs to be trimmed off so that the axle nut can be torqued down and then a cotter pin added. Otherwise, there's no way to put the cotter pin through the axle since the castle portion of the axle nut won't be down enough. Everything else is exactly same.
Did you swap out your axle bearing caps? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tanhis
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2005
Posts: 659
Location: Rauma Finland
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:58 am Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
What was the end result with 15mm did the drums go far enough that the whole brake shoe fits inside the drum. I got 14mm out from the outer surface and it looked like it went really close and I am not sure is shoe inside or not, but as I was in a rush I just installed it and will take it out during the winter. But I think the best option is to take 2mm from the inside and 13mm from the outside. And I used new CSP drums for the modification. But I will return to this once I get the drum out at some point.
_________________
-58 Typ2 ambulance
-62 Typ 34
-65 Typ 34
-73 411 variant all metal custom
-69 typ 2, 9 seater
-89 vanagon camper conversion matkaaja
-08 3.0tdi phaeton |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pitargue
Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2006
Posts: 239
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
Found a old style machine shop in Santa Clara, CA. Jay's Precision Machine, 1751 Grant St, Santa Clara, CA 95050.
Jay cut off 15mm on my type 3 hubs. Turn around: 1 day. Cost. $20.
If you have any machining needs, highly recommended. Jay is extremely friendly. If you have the time, Jay has lots of automotive related stories. I made the mistake about asking about the AS-41 case he had in the shop and what he was doing to it.  Truly a blast from the past, just the kind of machine shop I used to remember way back when. 5 stars! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pitargue
Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2006
Posts: 239
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
| W1K1 wrote: |
My local shop did it in about 1/2 hour for a case of beer. In fact it took longer to go get the beers and come back to the shop.
If the machine shop doesn't know how to chuck a hub in the machine, and cut 15 mm off the end.... run, run far away
maybe try a local handyman page on facebook, there are lots of retired guys around here with metal working machines in their garages. |
Thanks. It's amazing how hard it is to find an automotive machine shop in Sillycone Valley. It's not like the old days where there were so many good machine shops to choose from. Sign of the times? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 5297
Location: Southern AB
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
My local shop did it in about 1/2 hour for a case of beer. In fact it took longer to go get the beers and come back to the shop.
If the machine shop doesn't know how to chuck a hub in the machine, and cut 15 mm off the end.... run, run far away
maybe try a local handyman page on facebook, there are lots of retired guys around here with metal working machines in their garages.
_________________
1973 super 2110cc
1965 squareback 1500E-sold
1971 bay window westy- EJ2.5 subi swap |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pitargue
Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2006
Posts: 239
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
Can anyone recommend a machine shop in/near San Jose, CA that can take 15mm off the end for a reasonable price?
I just came from http://victoryautomotivemachine.com/index.html, and they quoted me 2 hours at $150/hour because they have to figure out how to do this.
Then went to https://www.peninsulaautomotive.com/, and they said they can't do it and I should go to a machine shop. Of course, they can't recommend any.
At this rate, probably easier to to get the short hubs from ISP West.
https://www.vwispwest.com/GA-501581.html?p=c3E9aHVi
So, any machine shop recommendations from the Volks? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 178
Location: Ringwood, England
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
| Studying the drawings and sectioned drawings I'm fairly sure I've got the right combination of axles and caps. It does mention that the early brake plates are thicker and as I'm using late ones this could be why they don't clamp up tight. Anyone know the difference or have an early one to measure? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
68notch
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Perth, Western Australia.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HenrikL
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 320
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
What are early bearing housing? There are at least 3 different housings for short axles, 1950-57, 58-64 and 65-66.
Check this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=422140 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 178
Location: Ringwood, England
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
| Yes I'm using early bearing housings and axles but not both from the same source. Are early brake plate thicker? AFAIK the early set-up doesn't use gaskets but I've added a couple to help it clamp up tight. Not ideal but better than it was.I'll be looking at adjusting the length of the bolts so the drum is located on the diameter not the thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
68notch
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Perth, Western Australia.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
| Marvel wrote: |
Just finished fitting short axles to my Type 34 so the Sprintstars don't rub. Everything is ok except the brake plates aren't clamped tight enough by the wheel bearing housing. What have others done to stop the annoying clonk. Add a couple of gaskets, machine the bearing housing or what?
|
I did not have the problem like this??
I dont know if this matters but did you also change your bearing housings too or is it still the original ones?
_________________
John
68 Aussie notch
2011 Citroen Berlingo
https://www.facebook.com/Fastacraft
RHD dash pad project http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=475227 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 178
Location: Ringwood, England
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
Just finished fitting short axles to my Type 34 so the Sprintstars don't rub. Everything is ok except the brake plates aren't clamped tight enough by the wheel bearing housing. What have others done to stop the annoying clonk. Add a couple of gaskets, machine the bearing housing or what?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
68notch
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Perth, Western Australia.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:44 am Post subject: Re: F.Y.I. short Type 1 swing axle's in a type 3 |
|
|
All finished a couple of months ago now and thought I would post my result. This pic was taken straight after lowering. It has settled a bit lower now and has a nice touch of negative camber.
It was also lowered a bit further front and back. Already has Bert3 drop spindles on the front so it just needed one outer tooth there.
In the end I have machined the 15mm off the wheel hub but I did do this as I had originally thought with 3mm off the back side and 12mm off the front side. It all worked out fine. No rubbing anywhere.
_________________
John
68 Aussie notch
2011 Citroen Berlingo
https://www.facebook.com/Fastacraft
RHD dash pad project http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=475227 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flyinglow94
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 1173
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PIMPPRIDE wrote: |
sounds good... but lets fix it first...
you should not machine the inside of the drum or hub... just the outside snout... ( if you machine the backside / inside you run the risk of running the drum or hub down into the brake shoes, wheel cylinder, springs ect... )
ultimately if it worked for you that's good... but its not the correct way...
the correct way to do it is to swap to short axles and swap the bug short axle end castings on to the the type 3 tubes... this is where the difference is... on your 1967 type 3 this would have given you the ability to keep the Z bar as the type 3 tube has the hoop for it... the bug does not...
there is a drift pin that holds the end casting to the tube... common on both type 1 and type 3 ( search the gallery for photos )
from there... you do have to take off 50 thou or so... ( about the size of the castle nut ) from the snout of the type 3 drum / hub...
Anthony / ISP WEST |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flyinglow94
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 1173
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
No. Don't over think this, as you can see a lot of people have done this without shaving the inside. You are using a type 3 drum and backing plate. after you bolt everything up and go to mount the drum you will see why. The snout of the drum is the only piece that needs to be shaved for the nut on the axle.
_________________
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: 'tis dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
