Help Me Decide - Repair Wasserboxer, Subaru, Zetec?

[aquaboxa]

Perhaps this will change your mind...

I'd like to pick this up and keep it in the garage "just in case". Alas, these days we don't get to spend $700 just in case

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=909443
_________________
'89 Vanagon Bluestar
a.k.a. "The Bermuda Rectangle"

[dredward]

[dredward]

[connorsvw2]

JLP engines, aka Jake Lake/Ken Morgan? I'd review this site carefully before going that route if I were you.

I met with him in 2002 and visited his shop in Denver and considered his engine before going with the Subie 2.5 back in 2003. Best Vanagon decision I have made to date, it seems, based upon the experiences of others.

[izzydog]

If I were doing a conversion right now (I did mine almost 3 years ago) I would find a list of local refs and GO TALK TO THEM. Ask them what they want to see. They are not boogeymen. They have a job to do and most will be willing to tell you exactly what they want to see. You are rolling the dice if you do anything else at this stage in the game.

The conversion scene in California is a moving target. What one ref wants to see another won't even consider. Without knowing what a ref wants to see, you could be throwing thousands of dollars down the drain.

I did mine with no KEP stuff whatsoever. Passed no problem. The ref that did mine (Bob in Alameda) is gone - retired. That door has closed. Things are changing.

If you put a 2.5 in there and magically make it through smog, you will have to do the same thing again in 2 years. A lot can change in two years at your local smog shop. Unless your rich uncle happens to own a gas station and can ignore the fact that you have a Subaru engine on board, don't count on someone else doing that as well. You could find a backwater station somewhere and just roll in and try it but you may have to try and fail several places before you find someone that doesn't look at your engine carefully. All your failed tests will go to Sacramento and you might get flagged somehow. If you go this route have the stations do a "test only". That way you stay out of the system.

If you really want a 2.5, you can do it the "Warren Chapman" way. Put a 2.2 with a KEP kit in there and then throw a 2.5 in there two years later and use any mount, muffler etc that your budget allows. A smog tech is a lot less likely to know the difference between a 2.2 and a 2.5 vs. a 2.2 and a WBX.

Whatever you do, do it soon -- before California changes the rules again.

Find a ref and work with them. They are mostly good guys just trying to do their jobs. You may not agree with them, but they are not out to screw you in some personal way. The chuckleheads in Sacramento... now that's another story!

[j_dirge]

[Jon_slider]

> If you want hassle free (relatively) CA smog test.. buy KEP 2.2 kit with the CARB EO and install exaclty whats on the parts list.

This is true, if you plan to try and get a CARB referee to give you a bar code sticker, and that sticker means ANY smog shop will smog your van.

However, I have a KEP conversion, but the CARB referee told me to just take the van to a smog shop as is (I know, get real, but thats what happened). I was refused a bar code sticker.

So I went to a smog shop in Santa Cruz, CA, and got smogged, problem solved for the next 2 years.

I understand the Alameda ref is better educated on subaru installs, and I agree that it would be better to have the bar code sticker. Next time I need a smog inspection, if I cant find a shop to pass me without it, I will go to the trouble of trying to convice a CARB Referee to give me the bar code sticker..

Point being, I can pass smog without a CARB Sticker, which means I could have had a 2.5 subaru instead of a 2.2...

in my experience, smog shops dont care about the Kennedy Executive Order, referees might, but smog shops dont.

It IS true however, that many smog shops will refuse to smog a van if I tell them I have a subaru motor installed, even though its coved by executive order.

Moral of the story, if you go Kennedy compliant, you do it because you plan to convince a referee to give you a bar code sticker. OTOH, if you can find a shop to smog you without mentioning the engine change, then it matters not at all what motor, or what kit, you install.. Just my experience and opinion.

[PDXWesty]

Has anyone heard an update from the OP? I wonder what he decided to do.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[j_dirge]

[Jon_slider]

> I think if I were to go the Bostig route I'd just spend some time finding an acommodating/lax shop. After that, how big a risk is it?

I agree, but by that logic, the 2.5 subie is a better choice, it has a LOT more power than a Bostig Zetec.

And, I dont think a shop that sniffs my 2.2 subie powered Syncro Westy is doing anything immoral. After all, the van has no more emissions than it did with a Waterboxer.

And fwiw, I was denied a Sticker by CARB Referee in San Jose. So I found a smog shop to sniff the tailpipe and passed.

Moral of the story, if you cant have a CARB sticker anyway, why choose a 130 horsepower Bostig or 2.2 Subie, when you could have a 165 horsepower Subie 2.5.

Its all about the horsepower, for me.

[ftp2leta]

[Tomudell]

Ok, after much reading the past day and talking to my aunts ex again I have decided to do the subi conversion instead of the rebuild. I plan to intall it my self to keep the cost down. I am still debating to buy the KEP or the small car, any thoughts?

[randywebb]

re: "lose 1 inch on mine"

what engine IS that?

[ccisco]

I'm glad that this thread has re-started, because I'm considering doing a conversion on my Westy. I've been checking prices, and it seems to me, even with shipping the wiring harness to Canada to get it done, the Subie conversion is a lot cheaper. I've my math is correct, buying the essential items from KEP runs about 1200 dollars, then the harness is about 600 to have done. That's $1900, and there's just a ton of 1990-95 (the non-interference engines) Legacys for 500-900 to get the engine, harness, computer etc. Which would bring the total price to about 2500-2800. Does that sound about right to those who have done this, or am I totally off? If so, that puts it in the range of a cheap rebuild on a Waterboxer...

[ftp2leta]

[randywebb]

[morymob]

[Tomudell]

Just a reply and my vote. I have also faced the pro's and cons cause I live in CA. I had my heart set on a 2.5 sub conversion but it is not approved in CA, only the 2.2. I was going to go that route until I found out it was going to have to be an OBDI version engine. I talked to my aunts ex boyfriend who owns a shop and worked on sub for the past 30 years and he said he would not touch the 2.5 wither way in his opinion those are all crap. FYI the years the 2.5 were the worst is any DOHC most likely 98 and earlier. Legacy 2000 - 2002, Impreza 99- 2002 and Forester 99-2002. If you stay away from those years and do a 2003 or newer you should be ok, but no guarantee or stick with a 2.2. If I were out of CA I would do the 2.5 with a newer 2.5 or better yet do the 2.0 turbo. Pro's and cons are also if you want to keep your A/C you have to get new a/c hoses made and for ground clearance would need to get the oil pan reduced. After much debate with my self I decided to go with a rebuilt engine from JLP www.jlpengines.com which will be a 2.3 115hp, with over 148 lb ft of torque. Jake there was a pleasure to talk with they have done much to their rebuilds to make them a much better engine at a good price. I for 1 wish that CA was not such a chicken shit or I would have done the subie conversion with a newer 2.5 or 2.0 turbo. Word to the wise, if you do stay there is anyone that does stay with the vw engine you might consider buying the subaru coolant conditioner as they call it (i think it is just a fancy stop leak but anyway) that is what they use in there 2.5's, I tried it in my 2.1 when I first got the leaky head gasket and it helped seal it, matter a fact I have not seen a leak since I added it. I know the problem is there so now was the time for me to make my decision to do the swap or rebuilt. Any thoughts on this conditioner, what could be the pro's and con's of using it the way subaru does in my new engine? or am y asking for problems cause it could cause my cooling system to get clogged up? any thoughts?

[j_dirge]

[Steelhead]