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VWAdam Samba Member

Joined: February 14, 2002 Posts: 3350 Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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While I am in no way saying that a '59 Impala is safer than an '09, however there is evidence to show that test was a bit "modified".
You see dust coming out in places (rust, or possibly pre weakened areas) and I've seen someone show that car had no engine in it.
Kind of like that news expose on the explosive prone fuel tanks in Chevy trucks where the "test" was rigged to explode on impact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-WYKYrq5FI
Same idea, old car still less safe but less dramatic with the actual crash. _________________ All he needed was a wheel in his hand and four on the road.
'59 Euro Beetle ragtop
'63 Standard Microbus
Come to my show! www.volksjam.com
Looking for badge/sticker/frame from Western Motors in Great Falls, Montana |
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ach60  Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2001 Posts: 4137 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I have to say that I'm intending on giving my old Passat wagon, or my old New Beetle to my sister's kids.
I wouldn't give them my old Air Cooled Beetle, because these kids just are not "car people".
They're better off with a safer car that is somewhat reliable, and damned safe.
Modern VW's (2000 & newer)are real safe cars, not to be confused with BIG cars or SUV's,
that may or may not really be that safe.
Link
_________________ Good Luck
Al |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 11046 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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vwlovr73 wrote: |
The guy yells at him something like "what's wrong with you! no one can drive a stick these days." The clerk looks at me and says "can you?" I say "yeah of course."
I drive away in the 26 footer and Mr Nobody-Drives-A-Stick gets my little van. My father was so proud. hah! Took me one trip to move my 1 bedroom apartment and didn't even have to stack anything.  |
Priceless!
Max _________________ 1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836 |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer

Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11158 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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vwlovr73 wrote: |
Really glad your kid got the manual though. I think it's important.
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IMO....it should be a requirement.
It's like riding a bike, once you learn it..... you got it forever.
In addition it helps break up "cocoon syndrome" _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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vwlovr73 Samba Member

Joined: April 20, 2000 Posts: 273 Location: ND
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Now we all (in our family) can drive the VW's any time we want to. |
While having a daily driver VW for 7 years as a kid was a GREAT experience for me, I have to say that as an adult I am pretty damn glad I have a car with heated seats and 40 mpg, in our -30 degree winters. I ain't as tough as I used to be.
Really glad your kid got the manual though. I think it's important.
Funny story for ya:
Picture two people in a Uhaul store picking up rentals. One's me, 23 years old college girl, there to pick up a smallish van I'd reserved. The other's a guy in his 40s, there to rent the biggest truck they have, which he'd reserved. He finishes his transaction and goes out to the truck, i step up to the counter to begin my transaction.
The man comes back in to the store a few seconds later, obviously upset, and complains that the full size truck (which is quite old) is manual. The uhaul clerk says, 'thats all we have for that size. in fact it's our last truck aside from the little one this gal is picking up.' The guy yells at him something like "what's wrong with you! no one can drive a stick these days." The clerk looks at me and says "can you?" I say "yeah of course."
I drive away in the 26 footer and Mr Nobody-Drives-A-Stick gets my little van. My father was so proud. hah! Took me one trip to move my 1 bedroom apartment and didn't even have to stack anything.  _________________ 1963 Beetle euro spec "Darrel" (since 2012)
Past - 1973 Beetle "Arthur" (owned 1998-2005)
Red River VW Club- http://www.redrivervwclub.com |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer

Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11158 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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I started this post... and have enjoyed every response.
It's nice to see opinions form and no real arguments come from it for a change.
To recap our personal decision,
We elected to forgo the 67 Beetle, as the main mode of transport for our son. We picked up a modern used GM car, actually a nice lil hot rod.
Its is a safer, yet much faster, has a few nice features, like A/C and Heat , it is a manual trans per my insistence, requires less mainteance, less fiddling, less tinckering, (yeah for me), it has great fuel mileage, much better than the Beetles, and frankly it was the right choice for us.
Now we all (in our family) can drive the VW's any time we want to. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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DeadheadSF Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2012 Posts: 129 Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
I want all the input good and bad. In reallity anyone can be seriuosly hurt in anything that we drive or ride on streets. We live in such a protected society in todays time. Driving around in a cocoon, unaware of our suroundings. |
That about sums it up beautifully - everyone oblivious in their little bubble.
Ultimately, it's up to you of course, but... how many teenagers drove a beetle as their first car? Quite a lot, I'd imagine. Here's some things to consider:
1. we live in a "protected society" - true. Part of the reason for that is that many people in the younger generations never learned how to live any OTHER way - even many 30+ year-olds are still as irresponsible as teenagers. Lack of experience plays a role in this...
2. Everyone's used to having "automatic"-everything (at least in the US). Driving a car requires no thought anymore, and as a result, people seldom learn to actually THINK when they're driving. If the majority of people here drove manual cars instead of automatics, I don't think we'd have nearly the problems with distracted driving. Further, driving a manual car makes you pay more attention to conditions around you since there's things you need to do to compensate that aren't necessary in an automatic.
3. Related to #2, learning to drive a very bare-bones manual car will teach a great deal of driving skill that most kids now never learn. Your son will be a better driver for it (at least, that's my opinion).
Yes, there's negatives, and everyone in this thread has covered them (no modern safety features: airbags, ABS, crumple zones; gas tank sitting right in front of you, fire hazards, poor handling, etc...) and the still large numbers of oversized gas-guzzlin' SUVs (rolling road hazards) - you'd think the high price of gas would've done something about that, but... no.
Just weigh the balance - consider driving conditions where you live. How crowded are the roads? Are quiet back roads and places where your son can learn the finer points of driving without much interference?
Some folks won't give a 16-year-old much credit... I can understand that to a point, but at 16, one should be considered old enough to be at least somewhat responsible. Not too long ago in our history, at age 16, you were expected to be working full time and possibly even getting married, etc... that all mostly changed in late 19th and early 20th centuries. Now, people are still children at 30 (or so it seems).
I'm trying to not make this into a philosophical thing because it's up to you anyway, but you wanted the good and bad sides, so there you go. It's a simple fact of life that bad things can and do happen; the best we can do is to learn how to handle them and prepare for them. But if everyone is afraid of everything (a common problem in our society), then no one is learning how to deal with problems and no one is really LIVING. You can't LIVE if you're hiding in the closet all your life out of fear of the unknown.
BTW, it's really cool you're going to do a rebuild project with your son. I never had many things like that growing up, but deeply wish I did... those are moments to cherish.
Good luck _________________ What a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG strange trip it's been...
'69 Standard Type 1 - stock, mint. |
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offshores Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2012 Posts: 1085 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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vwlovr73 wrote: |
mmmm. High fructose. Yum.  |
mmmm. Fruit cake. Lame.  |
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vwlovr73 Samba Member

Joined: April 20, 2000 Posts: 273 Location: ND
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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offshores wrote: |
With airplanes falling out of the skies, all the non VW related motor vehicle accidents, shootings at churches and movie theaters, e coli deaths from eating a carrot, cancers, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, suicide bombers, and the other 1 billion things that aren't "safe", I'd have to say that yes, I'd let my kid drive a Bug. My guess is that driving a Bug is much safer than the way parents feed their kids these days. |
mmmm. High fructose. Yum.  _________________ 1963 Beetle euro spec "Darrel" (since 2012)
Past - 1973 Beetle "Arthur" (owned 1998-2005)
Red River VW Club- http://www.redrivervwclub.com |
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offshores Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2012 Posts: 1085 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
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With airplanes falling out of the skies, all the non VW related motor vehicle accidents, shootings at churches and movie theaters, e coli deaths from eating a carrot, cancers, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, suicide bombers, and the other 1 billion things that aren't "safe", I'd have to say that yes, I'd let my kid drive a Bug. My guess is that driving a Bug is much safer than the way parents feed their kids these days. |
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vwlovr73 Samba Member

Joined: April 20, 2000 Posts: 273 Location: ND
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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79SuperVert wrote: |
But I still would not be able to go to sleep until I heard your bug pull into the driveway.  |
Well, I think my mom still can't sleep until she knows I'm home after I've been out bugging around town!  _________________ 1963 Beetle euro spec "Darrel" (since 2012)
Past - 1973 Beetle "Arthur" (owned 1998-2005)
Red River VW Club- http://www.redrivervwclub.com |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer

Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11158 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: |
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For those of you who have contributed and are interested, I have asked this topic be moved from the Technical forum to General Chat.
This post is still a good read. Opinions Opinion Opinions. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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79SuperVert Samba Member

Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 9758 Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Very well said. If you had been my daughter I think you would have convinced me to let you drive a bug.
But I still would not be able to go to sleep until I heard your bug pull into the driveway.  _________________ Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
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vwlovr73 Samba Member

Joined: April 20, 2000 Posts: 273 Location: ND
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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I'm one of those who got a Beetle at 15--and I'm female and only child (so, overprotected daughter, yadda yadda). I lived in northern Minnesota (where we got a lot of snow and ice) at the time too. My dad's thought? Well, they don't go very FAST anyway. I cared so much about my beetle. It taught me to be a very safe, conscious driver. You couldn't eat, use a cell phone, or do any of that stupid stuff kids tend to do in their cars because you had to pay ATTENTION. I learned that quickly and it stuck with me, even though I've had several other "modern cars" including a Toyota Land Cruiser (the biggest of them) and a Saab 900 (the smallest of them).
Now I'm 30 and have another Beetle... (along with a newer honda). The bug is a such a kick in the pants. You need to use your senses. New cars drive themselves and IMO, that is not a good way to learn to drive. The bug doesn't stop on a dime, it doesn't automatically shift, it doesn't even have two mirrors. Teaches you to pay attention and be aware of your surroundings. Use your ears, no loud music. Use your eyes, no texting. Use your hands, you need them both. Use your feet, again, need them both. Use your nose, monitor the state of your engine. Use your BRAIN, no daydreaming, no brainfarting, no cell-phoning.
I don't have kids yet but on whether I'd let my own kid drive a bug? It depends. I would, if they had demonstrated responsibility in other areas of their life... AND if they were actually passionate about bugs and old cars. I think you have to care about a car to gain that extra level of ownership of your actions. Teenage me actually gave a shit about her car (unlike any other teenage girl I knew and their car--most of whom were in fender benders or rollovers within their first year. imagine that.) And I gained valuable skills like checking tire pressure (most new cars just tell you if it's low with a light on the dash), timing, valve adjustment, oil changing, tire changing, and in-motion window-defrosting with a spray bottle of wiper fluid reached out the window .
For fun here's me with my "Arthur" in about 2000. I'd have been 17 here.
Aaaand more recently in 2012 with my "Darrel."
_________________ 1963 Beetle euro spec "Darrel" (since 2012)
Past - 1973 Beetle "Arthur" (owned 1998-2005)
Red River VW Club- http://www.redrivervwclub.com |
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Herrbern Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2008 Posts: 351 Location: Luxembourg, Europe
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:20 am Post subject: |
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I have been thru the different posts and I think you can be the best driver in the world, you can still be killed by someone else on the road, whatever you're driving; beetle or not. Injuries will be much higher in a bug than in a modern car, as the beetle is an old concept that can't absorb the energy as good as a modern car does.
You have to take into account that the beetle is a car designed without computer simulated crash zones. The collapse zones on bugs (yes, there are some, like front beam on a classic beetle and spare tire on a super) are empiric solutions. Just look how the cash tests where done in the 30's. Drop a bug from a cliff and see what happens...
In the 60's VW made some tests with airbags :
Lot's of cars have been made without real safety solutions, because designers didn't know how to make cars safer. Look at figures of the dead by
road accidents in the 50-60's.
As from the 90's, cars have changed thanks to computer simulations. Real safety features are present, which make them really better than older cars. Dead figures started to drop.
Todays cars are large and heavier than in the past, people preferring to buy SUV's,... Real military tanks ! We have cars that are so well designed that we feel invincible in our metal cans. But a car remains a weapon and requires full attention. What most of today's drivers forget...
Crashing with a beetle and an SUV car, is like crashing your bug into a wall. The other car will have almost nothing and the beetle will be total loss. And the driver too. It's a physical reality. The bigger and heavier wins.
Are bugs unsafe ? the answer is sadly yes. Today they have become unsafe for the driver and occupants on the road when crashing.
Do we have to get bugs off the road : for me the answer is no. Bugs are still safer than driving around on a bike.
Do we have to allow bugs to be driven by unexperienced folks: not for every day use. I think I would allow it if I know that my son has taken driving lessons and knows how to brake without ABS or knows how to react when the car oversteers. |
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Xo4 Samba Member

Joined: February 17, 2011 Posts: 23 Location: Utah
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I'd say No.
I'm 19 and have a 67' that I drive on weekends and sometimes to work. I Love my car to death and I keep myself a good distance from every car I can, but sadly with new technologies people think their Suburban is a tank and they can text and be fine. Its Selfish. So I say wait until they learn how to drive defensively and safer. Even then I don't trust a single other driver out there. |
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swinewerx Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2011 Posts: 98 Location: lodi, calif.
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have a daughter, that is twelve right now!!! she has taken a keen interest in my 1971 super beetle, it is such a great car, mechanically, it just needs a new paint job, and me to take my tooled leather abilities way too far with her beetle, after she showed interest in it, I promised i would not rape parts off of the 1971 to feed the hunger of my 1962! this was a hard decision, I was gonna just take the 1971 and pull the engine and transmission, and make a trike out of it, and just keep the body and pan stored, and ready for retransplantation of the motor and transmission, when I felt it was ready to be a complete bug again! My daughter is a genious! I really mean it! she is in the top five of the whole school she attends, and she likes being smart! she does not act like other children at all, she is very mature and really is getting into art!~ and being that I do leather work, and I am gooing to cover her seats, and her dash with tooled leather that will be molded to the dash so tight, it will be amazing and light blue in color for the leather! the way she is, and how she is very respectful, and polite, I beleive my child will be very happy and safe when it comes to driving, so, yeah, she will be behind a super beetle, I know, there are the ones who do not like the super beetles as compared to the classic, but, to me, an aircooled beetle is where it is at!!!! |
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mgamike Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding the steering column, I don't remember the year, but I believe that th 70s bugs had collapsable steering columns. On those you have to watch that the expanded steel used for the column doesn't rust out, causing a steering failure. |
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mgamike Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding the steering column, I don't remember the year, but I believe that th 70s bugs had collapsable steering columns. On those you have to watch that the expanded steel used for the column doesn't rust out, causing a steering failure. |
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jhicken Samba Member

Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9479 Location: Fallbrook, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure there are many folks on this list that started driving Beetles when they were 16 and are still hear to tell about it [myself included]. Hell, I'm sure there are quite a few 16-17yo kids that are currently on this list that drive their Beetle daily. I won't argue that a current car is "safer" than a 40yo Beetle but I'd say that it's probably more dangerous for your kid to play high school football.
FWIW, if my daughter wanted to drive a Beetle when she was able to drive [17 here in Jersey], I'd require here to get a little "skin in the game" before I'd give her the keys. I'd have her invest a lot of her time and money into the car before she climbed behind the wheel. Get her to respect the vehicle first, learn it's limitations and then let her enjoy it as we all do.
-jeffrey _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens |
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